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Did Gygax owe a bit of thanks to WotC?
- Thread starter Bullgrit
- Start date
Rykion
Explorer
Does a reviewer that gets a product for free owe the company that gave her the product a good review? Does a retired athlete that doesn't like the way his sport has changed owe it to the sport to be quiet? Of course not.
Gary didn't owe anything to WotC. He was often asked his feelings on the current version of D&D and he seems to have given them truthfully. I don't see how lying about it, or being quiet, would have shown better character.
Gary didn't owe anything to WotC. He was often asked his feelings on the current version of D&D and he seems to have given them truthfully. I don't see how lying about it, or being quiet, would have shown better character.
Obryn
Hero
OK, I must have misread the part where WotC allegedly "brought him out of obscurity" and made his name important again. And where he apparently owed WotC something for this.
If it wasn't done as a favor, why should he owe them anything? You think he owed WotC a show of gratitude - that implies it was done as a favor, whether or not you used that specific term. There's no socially expected show of gratitude required in a business transaction.
-O
D'karr
Adventurer
People should spend some time reading the Q&A threads that he had here on ENWorld.
He didn't like the rules emphasis of 3e and when asked about it he had no qualms of giving his OPINION on the subject. He even acknowledged that his tastes had moved to the rules-lite games. He also thought that it was a bad business move for WotC to use the Open Gaming License. Those are not mysteries, but he did not go on and crap on WotC.
On more than one occasion on these boards he was more than gracious with players and always emphasized that people should play what they liked, even if it was not his cup of tea.
He had a lot to say about the management of late TSR, and some people in particular but I never saw any subtle or overt putdowns towards WotC, and he only criticized the OGL in it's business practicality and the game in it's abundance of rules.
So unless someone can actually post some of these "putdowns of the new company and the new game" this is just spurious rumor.
He didn't like the rules emphasis of 3e and when asked about it he had no qualms of giving his OPINION on the subject. He even acknowledged that his tastes had moved to the rules-lite games. He also thought that it was a bad business move for WotC to use the Open Gaming License. Those are not mysteries, but he did not go on and crap on WotC.
On more than one occasion on these boards he was more than gracious with players and always emphasized that people should play what they liked, even if it was not his cup of tea.
He had a lot to say about the management of late TSR, and some people in particular but I never saw any subtle or overt putdowns towards WotC, and he only criticized the OGL in it's business practicality and the game in it's abundance of rules.
So unless someone can actually post some of these "putdowns of the new company and the new game" this is just spurious rumor.
A couple of points.
I don't think it was WoTC that brought him "out of obscurity", but the rise of the Internet itself. Gary did not start using the Internet himself until around 1996, and he started by having informal chats on Marcray's Keep, had a web site for a brief period, and setup some mailing lists.
While 3e might have brought some attention to EGG, I also think the thing it brought was a more "indirect effect" through all the web sites, most particularly ENWorld and Dragonsfoot. Gary also sort of got inspired by the latter because he realized there were what he believed to be a loyal number of people who stuck with 1st Edition.
As far as Gary's opinions, he hated what he called "political correctness" and never wanted to hide his opinions on subjects. I personally thought he could be a little more diplomatic, but that wasn't his way, and I respected that. Note that there are forums like that--ENWorld is more strict about rules regarding edition wars, others allow full flaming. I do know that when you met Gary at a convention, he was usually polite and from what I saw (unlike some old-school fans) he did not attack a player of RPGs in general. People also need to remember that EGG occasionally used "Puffery" in his writing and his opinions (as noted by Robin Laws) tended to sound more angry in writing than in person.
Did having a stroke change Gary? Well, if you think the opinions on D&D changed because of it, you'd be mistaken, as early as 2002 I saw changes in opinion about the new game. I did see some changes--I think the stroke inspired some enhancement of religious faith, that's the most direct thing I saw. He went from being a strict libertarian to a more social conservative--we had a talk list for political discussion and he went from forwarding Harry Browne articles to WorldNetDaily and Ann Coutler articles. But that might have started after 9/11 and the Middle Eastern Wars, so I can't even blame that directly on the stroke.
So, I don't think he "owed" WoTC anything, more likely the Internet. I don't see them directly responsible for putting him on the map--clearly the fan sites, as well as the partners he worked with did more than WoTC in my mind.
I don't think it was WoTC that brought him "out of obscurity", but the rise of the Internet itself. Gary did not start using the Internet himself until around 1996, and he started by having informal chats on Marcray's Keep, had a web site for a brief period, and setup some mailing lists.
While 3e might have brought some attention to EGG, I also think the thing it brought was a more "indirect effect" through all the web sites, most particularly ENWorld and Dragonsfoot. Gary also sort of got inspired by the latter because he realized there were what he believed to be a loyal number of people who stuck with 1st Edition.
As far as Gary's opinions, he hated what he called "political correctness" and never wanted to hide his opinions on subjects. I personally thought he could be a little more diplomatic, but that wasn't his way, and I respected that. Note that there are forums like that--ENWorld is more strict about rules regarding edition wars, others allow full flaming. I do know that when you met Gary at a convention, he was usually polite and from what I saw (unlike some old-school fans) he did not attack a player of RPGs in general. People also need to remember that EGG occasionally used "Puffery" in his writing and his opinions (as noted by Robin Laws) tended to sound more angry in writing than in person.
Did having a stroke change Gary? Well, if you think the opinions on D&D changed because of it, you'd be mistaken, as early as 2002 I saw changes in opinion about the new game. I did see some changes--I think the stroke inspired some enhancement of religious faith, that's the most direct thing I saw. He went from being a strict libertarian to a more social conservative--we had a talk list for political discussion and he went from forwarding Harry Browne articles to WorldNetDaily and Ann Coutler articles. But that might have started after 9/11 and the Middle Eastern Wars, so I can't even blame that directly on the stroke.
So, I don't think he "owed" WoTC anything, more likely the Internet. I don't see them directly responsible for putting him on the map--clearly the fan sites, as well as the partners he worked with did more than WoTC in my mind.
renau1g
First Post
Do you have any links? I'd love to read them
D'karr
Adventurer
They start here as far as I know
http://www.enworld.org/forum/archive-threads/22566-q-gary-gygax-part-i.html
There is usually a link from one to the other. I believe there were about 13-14 of them.
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