Did Gygax owe a bit of thanks to WotC?

[Umbran]

Didn’t Gygax owe a little thanks to WotC and new D&D? Don’t we all owe them a little thanks for bringing the man back on stage for us?

Some will say that he'd not drifted into obscurity, and while he may still have had some venues of communication, I don't think I can accept the notion that his exposure was of the same size and scope as in his heyday with TSR.

Consider that WotC brought about 3e. 3e brought about EN World. EN World had the Gygax Q&A threads. Does anyone have a strong argument that this did not bring some Gygaxian wisdom to at least hundreds, and possibly thousands or tens of thousands that would not have otherwise heard it?

So, yes, a nod of thanks would be appropriate. And I think he gave that in his dealings with Peter Adkison.

So someone who is not a fan of game X means that they are of low character now assuming such "circumstances" were correct to begin with?

No. But Gary was more than just "not a fan" - he was a seminal influence, and still active as a professional. We should expect him to behave in a professional manner. And there's nothing wrong with asking if maybe he occasionally got a little more crotchety than was appropriate for his position.

 

[renau1g]

3E was marketed as a "return to the dungeon". They wanted to be linked to 1e, not 2e, and that meant, among other things, having Gary saying "I'm Gay Gygax and I endorse this D&D". And that's, more or less, what they paid him for, and what he did in his Dungeon/Dragon (I don't remember which of them) articles.

Well I'm not sure what relevance his sexual orientation has on people's views of 3e (j/k)

That being said Gary seemed (now I say seemed as I never spoke/communicated with him) like an outspoken and opinionated guy. I doubt he would've taken money from WOTC to peddle their product and then blast it behind their back.

 

[JRRNeiklot]

This is all from my perspective:

Before 2000, Gary Gygax had pretty much fallen to obscurity, known about, really, only by old-time D&D fanatics.

Your perspective is wrong.

Didn’t Gygax owe a little thanks to WotC and new D&D? Don’t we all owe them a little thanks for bringing the man back on stage for us?

Bullgrit

This entire premise is hogwash. WOTC owes Gary EVERYTHING. He owes them nothing.

 

[renau1g]

I don't know if they owe him everything, he didn't invent Magic which I think is their bigger money maker. Actually I don't think they owe each other anything.

 

[JRRNeiklot]

He didn't invent Magic, but I'd argue that Magic wouldn't exist without Gary. After all Wizard's of the Coast took their very name from a D&D campaign.

I don't know if they owe him everything, he didn't invent Magic which I think is their bigger money maker. Actually I don't think they owe each other anything.

 

[Haffrung Helleyes]

well

I think the idea that Gary owed WoTC a thing is completely without merit, and furthermore the thought seems a bit mean-spirited to me.

Ken

 

[MerricB]

3E and the OGL had a huge influence on the internet landscape. It started up EN World. It polarized opinion, so much so that it drove interest in "that which was left behind" - that is, the older rulesets - which in turn led to the formation of Dragonsfoot and, later, the current OSR movement. We also got Necromancer Games and Troll Lord Games, both of which published past and current works of Gary Gygax.

It is worth noting that Gary's Lejendary Adventures was first published in 1999, during some of the dark years, just before the publication of 3e.

In addition to having his work now published by quite visible publishers, Gary was first writing articles for Dragon magazine, and then, by virtue of the internet, posting regularly on EN World, Dragonsfoot and other places. For a short time, you got him and Rob Kuntz working together and posting on the Pied Piper Publishing boards.

Although the rise to prominence of the internet and web has something to do with this, far more was due to the effect that Wizards of the Coast, 3E and the OGL had on the roleplaying scene. The spike in interest in new D&D - and in old D&D - I think really helped bring Gary back to our attention.

I don't think Gary owed anything, but we should recognise that the effect of 3E on the roleplaying scene was significant - and probably did bring Gary into contact with a lot of us.

Cheers!

 

[renau1g]

He didn't invent Magic, but I'd argue that Magic wouldn't exist without Gary. After all Wizard's of the Coast took their very name from a D&D campaign.

I'd argue the other way, but since neither of us were on the MTG development teams I'm thinking it's just hearsay either way. So they took their name from a campaign? So what if it was called something else I'm sure it would've been fine as well.

 

[Jolly_Blackburn]

I don't think Gary ever faded into obscurity in the first place. I don't know where you're getting that.

Totally agree. I remember him coming to GenCon in the late 90's (98?) and seeing him walk through the crowd as heads turned and jaws dropped.

People whispering "That's Gary!!"

It was something to see.

 

[JohnRTroy]

To be honest, EGG was a lot more available to us as soon as late 1996. The problem is I don't think a lot of gamers knew where to look.

Part of the problem is it seems the last decade of "The Internet" is almost akin to the Dark Ages, in terms of what we lost. EGG started joining some dedicated e-mail lists such as the Greytalk-L list I think in 1997 or 1998. He had a few mailing lists and used those a lot. The site who hosted his stuff was the same guys who do Marcray's Keep---I think they had other sites as well. But all this stuff occurred before the age of Google and the rise of good message board software.

Some people don't remember just how hard it was BEFORE the Internet to know what he was doing. After NIPI folded, I was curious what happened, and for years I wished I knew if my favorite author was doing anything.

Another thing is that it took Gary some time to re-warm up to AD&D. When he started he really avoided fielding questions about D&D, but he mellowed a lot later on. He really appreciated the communities.

One thing I think people should recognize is that EGG loved gamers and participation on these message boards did not directly benefit his profit or bottom line. All the appreciation in the world didn't and doesn't translate to sales.

In fact, he probably spent at least 3 hours a day reading and writing on the various boards and checking e-mails instead of writing manuscripts and other things. I think fans should appreciate the time he spent with us--especially AFTER the stroke hit and reduced his time to write. Its possible he could have gotten a few levels of Castle Zagyg published if he cut off all public communications. But he chose to spend a lot of time here fielding questions and making jokes.

ETA: JRB's pop-ing in reminds me that Gary was making some contributions to independent 'zine's like Shadis.