Did Gygax owe a bit of thanks to WotC?

[Man in the Funny Hat]

Did Gary benefit from WotC's rescue of D&D from the oblivion that TSR consigned it to. Yes.

Did Gary benefit from WotC's acknowlegements of his contributions and their efforts to include him? Undeniably.

Was Gary grateful for these things? I think evidence shows he was.

Did any of that mean that Gary OWED WotC anything? Not in the slightest.

As far as I know, where Gary did formal work in writing columns or whatever for WotC he was compensated as any writer would have been. Where his historical contributions to the game were noted by WotC I have seen no reason to doubt that he was duly appreciative. But the thing is - giving someone something does NOT obligate them to you for the gift. Not even if it's just a public expression of gratitude.

Even so, if we assume that Gary DID owe WotC thanks - did he need to state it publicly, repeatedly, and strenuously not so that WotC noted his gratitude but so that WE could note specifically his expressed gratitude?

Gary certainly seemed no different from the average guy. I think he could be opinionated and even WRONG in his opinions. I never sensed any real hostility or ingratitude from him towards anyone though. He seemed gracious enough towards WotC and 3rd Edition while he was indeed being featured by WotC in its publications, plans and promotions. But as that ebbed when 3E became more established he seemed to me understandably less bound by courtesy and business ethics to simultaneously become freer to speak his true mind on both. I don't know that he ever spoke ill of any PEOPLE at WotC but apparantlyy didn't share their outlook on the business side of things and was not actually impressed by what they did with the rules.

Whatever he may have owed them publicly, he seems to me to have paid it. Whatever he may have owed them privately may be another issue but not really our concern.

 

[JohnRTroy]

John, if you read this, do you know if he ever got to play around with 4E test rules at all? I want to say I read somewhere he got to mess around with an early version and played a dwarf of some sort, but didn't think much of those rules, either -- but I may be getting this conflated with a 3E story I read.

He was complete out of regular communication with WoTC for years. The playtesting for 3e was based on a direct request from Peter Adkinson--I believe he was actually paid for his review/test/comments. The only other playtest I remember was him playing a 3e game as playtest for Luke and Ernie's Lost City of Gaxmoor for TLG.

Pretty much once Peter left WoTC and general change in management, most communication dried up. He mentioned he did not write anything for the big 30 years of D&D set when they wanted to get a quote--they used older quotes. I think the few others who communicated with Gary like Erik Mona all left WoTC over the years. And I think he had a growing distaste for the 3e game rules. When I mentioned getting the D&D Cartoon Boxed Set back shortly before Christmas of 2006, and asking if he received a copy, here's his response.

Hah! I am anethma to WotC, as I was to TSR under Williams. I never get anything from them, save a small credit now and then for being the original creator of some work of mine they are exploiting.

So as far as 4e, no, he was never approached and he was about as much in the loop as any other non-playtester/non-employee. (And I think by the time they got the rules out to the playtest groups, Gary had suffered his Fall and medication complications, so he had little energy to spare on his last projects).

 

[renau1g]

One thing to consider as well is that Gary Gygax was a human being whereas WoTC is a corporation. Maybe I'm a bit off but I've never felt that a person owed an object/multinational corporation anything.

Wish we could all just toast the progenitor of a fun pastime and leave it at that. So, whatever plane you find yourself Gary, thank you. My wife might not have the same words when I spend hours pretending to be an elf

 

[airwalkrr]

Well since I'm with Gary and I like his version of the game best...

I don't think just because a company does you the justice you should have gotten long ago means you have to honey your words towards them. He created the game. As far as I'm concerned WotC (and even more than that Paizo) was giving him the respect he deserved after Lorraine Williams forced him out of TSR and into said obscurity.

Gary has always been an opinionated guy. And that, more than anything, is what I like about his personality. He was genuine. And you don't see that a lot in this world. I have read a lot of his stuff and I don't think his opinions were ever voiced in an inappropriate manner. He was frank, but in a world that tries to be so politically correct out of fear of offending the bug on the ass of a Tibetan refugee, I found that to be a breath of fresh air.

What is in bad taste IMHO is to speak ill of the dead.

R.I.P. Gary. Still thinking about you.

 

[Coldwyn]

I think some of you overestimate the reach and influence the name Gary Gygax has and had outside the english speaking countries. For example, I´m frequenting most of the german speaking RPG boards and his name so seldom comes up as a reference, one could count the occurences in the fingers of two hands. Bevor the advent of 3E, Dragon and tangentially the whole D&D-related boards the came into existence as reaction to 3E, the name was relativelly obscure, maybe on the level of "the guy who wrote the old D&D books". I think fellows like Keefe, Mustrum or Windjammer will be able to verify this.

So yes, Gary owed some of his newfound popularity to WotC.

 

[D'karr]

his name so seldom comes up as a reference, one could count the occurences in the fingers of two hands.

So much like Capt. Jack Sparrow, you have heard of him... LOL

 

[Raven Crowking]

Unfortunately, I have given out too much XP in the last 24 hours, because there are many, many XP-worthy posts in this thread.

Suffice it to say that I am grateful to Gary for all of his contributions -- the creation/development of the game, the time he spent here and on Dragonsfoot, his kind words to me (and especially his kindness in taking the time for them), his personality, his honesty, and his sense of humour. Gary Gygax was, AFAICT, a truly genuine individual.

Also, perhaps the foremost authority on polearms of our time.

As for what Gary Gygax "owes" WotC -- The only real answer is "Unask the Question".


RC

 

[catsclaw227]

As for what Gary Gygax "owes" WotC -- The only real answer is "Unask the Question".

This. There isn't a correct answer because the conditions of the question are subjective and/or it depends on incorrect assumptions.

The answer is Mu.

 

[Coldwyn]

So much like Capt. Jack Sparrow, you have heard of him... LOL

Please don´t pull this out of context. In contrast to boards like ENWorld, where a lot of arguments are backed with "Gary said this" or "look up the Q&A threads", exactly this doesn´t really happen in said german-speaking boards.

 

[Umbran]

Sorry Umbran, but I don't see it. He may as well have "offered thanks" to the creators of the internet, the PC, and AC/DC current for enabling this.

Seems to me that most of our society owes a nod in such a direction, too. Especially those of us who make our livings off of it.

If memory serves, a Gygaxian quote on 3E was "let them play their little game."

Yeah, well, if that's the case, then I don't think that was Gary's finest hour as a professional. That's not a huge deal - nobody is perfect.

Be that as it may - maybe I'm wrong, but I get the feeling that a lot of folks here think that owing a bit of thanks to someone... somehow lessens Gary. I think that is hogwash. No man or woman is an island. We all benefit from the actions of others pretty constantly. Only the prideful fail to acknowledge that.