Mystra, the weave and magic as we know it now

[Talysian]

Ok maybe I'm misremembering this but wasn't Cyric in Love with Midnight "Mystra". And she went for Kel? I quit following it a lot after that, but it seems to me unless Cyric went for the if I can't have her no one will, I'm not sure how likely it seems to me that he would kill Midnight.. or am I wrong on that?

 

[Hawkeye]

Ok maybe I'm misremembering this but wasn't Cyric in Love with Midnight "Mystra". And she went for Kel? I quit following it a lot after that, but it seems to me unless Cyric went for the if I can't have her no one will, I'm not sure how likely it seems to me that he would kill Midnight.. or am I wrong on that?

Cyric was quite insane after the events of the Cyrinishad and very mad at Mystra/Midnight for doing things to him, like taking away his access to magic and helping him lose the domain of death. He wouldn't have had any compunctions about killing her.

Hawkeye

 

[Talysian]

Makes sense thanks!

 

[DracoSuave]

Ok maybe I'm misremembering this but wasn't Cyric in Love with Midnight "Mystra". And she went for Kel? I quit following it a lot after that, but it seems to me unless Cyric went for the if I can't have her no one will, I'm not sure how likely it seems to me that he would kill Midnight.. or am I wrong on that?

Well, Cyric got spurned by Midnight, and being of the Chaotic Evil sort, compared to her Neutral Good, he got -very- jealous and killed Kelemvor himself.

So Midnight declared HIM -her- enemy, and sought to get back at her.

And then they became gods, carrying on them grudges.

From there, Midnight, now Mystra, actually denied Cyric's clerics access to their magic (which is well within her ability, as divine magic is still part of the Weave) because they were evil. This touched off a bit of a divine debacle.

Meanwhile, Cyric wanted to get back at Mystra for that, in his insane way (now that he's god of madness as well) and so he decided to put a bounty on Kelemvor in the Grey Waste (not realizing Kel's soul was in his own sword, the Godsbane, aka Mask).

This caused the dead souls of the Grey Waste, tired of their treatment, to rally behind this Kelemvor name, and start their own revolution in the afterlife.

Lord Ao figured all this was unacceptable, so made Kelemvor the god of the dead, taking that away from Cyric. (Which he took out on Mystra).


Cyric's beef against Mystra wasn't one sided, and while insane, was certainly understandable from his point of view as god of death, strife, murder, madness, and lies (many parts of his portfolio which were later taken away)

 

[Hawkeye]

Well, Cyric got spurned by Midnight, and being of the Chaotic Evil sort, compared to her Neutral Good, he got -very- jealous and killed Kelemvor himself.

So Midnight declared HIM -her- enemy, and sought to get back at her.

And then they became gods, carrying on them grudges.

From there, Midnight, now Mystra, actually denied Cyric's clerics access to their magic (which is well within her ability, as divine magic is still part of the Weave) because they were evil. This touched off a bit of a divine debacle.

I don't think she denies access to magic for his cleric's just him. I need to look at the book to see how they distinguish it.

Hawkeye

 

[DracoSuave]

I don't think she denies access to magic for his cleric's just him. I need to look at the book to see how they distinguish it.

Hawkeye

Actually, iirc, that -was- his complaint.

Of course, he -was- the god of lying at the time....

But if I recall, she admitted it, because 'they were using it for evil.'

Remember, Mystra before her was True Neutral, Midnight was Neutral Good.

 

[Hawkeye]

Actually, iirc, that -was- his complaint.

Of course, he -was- the god of lying at the time....

But if I recall, she admitted it, because 'they were using it for evil.'

Remember, Mystra before her was True Neutral, Midnight was Neutral Good.

I'll have to find a copy of Prince of Lies, but isn't there a scene, where Cyric has to ask one of his followers to cast a spell so he can plane shift to the meeting?

Hawkeye

 

[Mirtek]

I'll have to find a copy of Prince of Lies, but isn't there a scene, where Cyric has to ask one of his followers to cast a spell so he can plane shift to the meeting?

He needs to ask Talos to planeshift him home, because he can't do it anymore.

However this shouldn't have been possible for Mystra, since her influence on magic is restricted to prime material world of Toril. Later supplements clarified that she actually has no power over fellow deities on the planes.

Funny thing is that later in PoL the "magic-less" deity fights Mystra and forces her to flee, simply taking his power directly from the plane they're fighting on to substitute for his lost magic.

 

[DracoSuave]

He needs to ask Talos to planeshift him home, because he can't do it anymore.

However this shouldn't have been possible for Mystra, since her influence on magic is restricted to prime material world of Toril. Later supplements clarified that she actually has no power over fellow deities on the planes.

Funny thing is that later in PoL the "magic-less" deity fights Mystra and forces her to flee, simply taking his power directly from the plane they're fighting on to substitute for his lost magic.

No, I mean, I'm refering directly to the meeting where he accuses Mystra of denying -his priests- access to the weave when they use magic for evil purposes.

Which is within Mystra's power (it is the Weave) but is not within her rights (as even Kelemvor was against her on that score)

 

[Felon]

The spell didn'T kill a deity, it merely allowed the caster to temporarily merge with the deity and wield her power while the spell lasted. At the end the caster would be expelled and die in the process, while the deity would be none the worse for the wear.

However since Karsus was unable to attend to the continuous needs of the weave, Mystryl performed suice to end the spell prematurely instead of just waiting out it's duration, as every the damage to the weave grew with every second.

This is the canonically correct delineation of events. Karsus' spell did not kill a deity. It screwed up the weave, and the deity sacrificed herself to make repairs. Karsus didn't make the full trip to godhood (else he wouldn't have died) and instead wound up as an aspect for 3.5e binders and a vestige for 4e warlocks.