Special Conversion Thread: Plants

[Shade]

This is one of the more interesting plants I've seen in a while; I wonder why it never got a more official treatment (even in the ToH or something).

Indeed.

First thoughts: let's ditch the stages of growth, as the younger ones don't seem to do much.

Agreed wholeheartedly.

Let's figure out some ability scores. Int we know is 5-7.

Reducing a tendriculous to Large yields...

Str 20, Dex 11, Con 18, Int 3, Wis 8, Cha 3

Some other Large plants:
Bloodthorn: Str 20, Dex 17, Con 19, Int --, Wis 12, Cha 2
Night Twist: Str 39, Dex 6, Con 29, Int 12, Wis 14, Cha 21
Vinespawn: Str 22, Dex 21, Con 17, Int 5, Wis 10, Cha 12

 

[freyar]

Picking somewhat arbitrarily, how about Str 22, Dex 11, Con 18, Int 3, Wis 10, Cha 13? I think the night twist is a bit overpowered compared to this (and IIRC has many more HD), but the rest are about the same. I went with the higher Cha to help out the SLAs a little.

 

[Cleon]

Picking somewhat arbitrarily, how about Str 22, Dex 11, Con 18, Int 3, Wis 10, Cha 13? I think the night twist is a bit overpowered compared to this (and IIRC has many more HD), but the rest are about the same. I went with the higher Cha to help out the SLAs a little.

I like Shade's downscaled Tendriculos for a foundation, but feel it needs a higher Charisma to power its SLAs. I'd also like to boost the Wisdom and Dexterity a bit.

The original description gives it the equivalent of hypnotism, dominate, mass suggestionand read thoughts as SLAs, all 1/day.

Are we making the dominate dominate person (5th) or dominate monster (9th level)? It might be easier to just make it charm monster (Sor 4) instead or in addition to dominate person.

In any case, I'm thinking a Charisma at least 16 - the score a sorcerer needs to case mass suggestion. The weapon powers can be used more often than 1/day methinks.

How about this:

Abilities: Str 20, Dex 13, Con 18, Int 7, Wis 13, Cha 16

Spell-Like Abilities: At-will - read thoughts, 3/day - hypnotism (DC14), 1/day - charm monster (DC17) or dominate person (DC18), mass suggestion (DC19). Caster level 12th, the save DCs are Charisma-based.

Hmm, I'm not sure I'm all that happy with that. Perhaps we should make some or all these SLAs Supernatural powers instead, like the SRD Vampire's Dominate?

 

[freyar]

Ability scores are ok, and I'd forgotten Int was so high!

I'm not sure I see the justification in splitting these out as Su; the vampire does that to make it a gaze attack (which is a little annoying anyway). I think I'd like to make the charm monster into suggestion perhaps at 3/day and keep dominate person at 1/day.

 

[Cleon]

Ability scores are ok, and I'd forgotten Int was so high!

I'm not sure I see the justification in splitting these out as Su; the vampire does that to make it a gaze attack (which is a little annoying anyway). I think I'd like to make the charm monster into suggestion perhaps at 3/day and keep dominate person at 1/day.

Just to be clear, you're suggesting:

Spell-Like Abilities: At-will - read thoughts, 3/day - hypnotism (DC14), suggestion (DC16), 1/day - dominate person (DC18), mass suggestion (DC19). Caster level 12th, the save DCs are Charisma-based.

That looks reasonable to me.

Shall we move on to its melee abilities?

The original plant has 4-12 tendrils which can club for 1d6 damage or constrict for 1d4 which it can use to transfer prey to its mouth where they take 1d3 spines + 1 acid damage per round. The mouth doesn't seem to do bite damage, but there's precedent for that.

So, 4 tendrils with Improved Grab, Constrict and Swallow Whole?

The tendrils can be severed - copy the SRD Giant Octopus's tentacle-severing?

I think we'd better increase the Swallow Whole damage quite a bit. 1d6 piercing plus 1d6 acid?

It's mobile, but very slow - speed 10 ft?

The original monster's tendrils and mouth are AC5, the trunk AC3 and the head AC1. I'd average it to AC3 and convert that to an AD&D AC of 17-18.

Putting it together, I'm getting something like this:

Helborn
Large Plant
Hit Dice: 8d8+32 (68 hp)
Initiative: +1
Speed: 10 ft. (2 squares)
Armor Class: 17 (-1 size, +1 Dex, +7 natural) touch 10, flat-footed 16
Base Attack/Grapple: +6/+15
Attack: Tendril +11 melee (1d6+5)
Full Attack: 4-12 tendrils +11 melee (1d6+5)
Space/Reach: 10 ft./10 ft.
Special Attacks: Constrict 1d4+5, improved grab, spell-like abilities, swallow whole
Special Qualities: Low-light vision, plant traits, spell resistance CR+7, telepathy 60 ft.
Saves: Fort +10, Ref +3, Will +5
Abilities: Str 20, Dex 13, Con 18, Int 7, Wis 13, Cha 16
Skills: Bluff +6* (+10 with telepathy), Hide +1* (+9 in undergrowth), Listen +5, Spot +5
Feats: Power Attack, Iron Will, Weapon Focus (tendril)
Environment: Warm swamps
Organization: Solitary
Challenge Rating: ?
Treasure: Standard ?
Alignment: Always neutral evil ?
Advancement: 9-11 HD (Large), 12-17 HD (Huge), 18-24 HD (Gargantuan)
Level Adjustment: —

Combat
Helborn attack with their tendrils, which they use to crush opponents before attempting to swallow them. Each plant has one tendril for every 2 Hit Dice it possesses, and can attack with all of them simultaneously with a full attack. A helborn can attack a Small or Man-sized opponent with up to four tendrils, a Tiny opponent with two, and a Diminutive or smaller opponent with only one tendril. Opponents can attack a helborn's tendrils with a sunder attempt as if they were weapons. A helborn's tendrils have 10 hit points each. If a helborn is currently grappling a target with the tendril that is being attacked, it usually uses another limb to make its attack of opportunity against the opponent making the sunder attempt. Severing one of a helborn's tendrils deals 5 points of damage to the creature. A helborn usually withdraws from combat if it loses two tendrils. The creature regrows severed limbs in 1d10+10 days.

Constrict (Ex): A helborn deals 1d4+5 points of damage with a successful grapple check.

Improved Grab (Ex): To use this ability, a helborn must hit an opponent of any size with a tentacle attack. It can then attempt to start a grapple as a free action without provoking an attack of opportunity. If it wins the grapple check, it establishes a hold and can constrict and swallow whole.

Spell-Like Abilities: At-will - read thoughts, 3/day - hypnotism (DC14), suggestion (DC16), 1/day - dominate person (DC18), mass suggestion (DC19). Caster level 12th, the save DCs are Charisma-based.

Swallow Whole (Ex): A helborn can try to swallow a grabbed opponent of a smaller size than itself by making a successful grapple check. Once inside, the opponent takes 1d6+5 points of crushing damage per round plus 1d6 points of acid damage. A swallowed creature can cut its way out by dealing 20 points of damage to the plant's interior (AC 13). Once the creature exits, muscular action close the hole; another swallowed opponent must cut its own way out. A Large helborn's interior can hold 2 Medium, 8 Small, 32 Tiny or 128 Diminutive smaller creatures.

Skills: *A hellborn has a +12 racial bonus on Hide checks when amongst undergrowth. *A hellborn has a +4 circumstance bonus on Bluff checks when using its telepathy to communicate.

 

[freyar]

Looks pretty good to me! Shall we give them 4 tendrils?

 

[Cleon]

Looks pretty good to me! Shall we give them 4 tendrils?

Oh dang it, I was going to put that in but forgot.

I'll edit "4 tendrils" in, and copy-and-paste in some of the standard tentacle and SA descriptions.

 

[Shade]

Added to Homebrews.

I added telepathy and spell resistance, as indicated in the orginal description.

It sounds like they would have decent Bluff skills, so perhaps a racial bonus and maybe Skill Focus?

I'd suggest splitting the skills between Bluff, Listen, and Spot.

Should we add an "advanced helborns" underbar to grant additional tendril attacks for every x Hit Dice gained? Thus the largest would have 12 tendrils, like the high end of the original description's range. Perhaps allow even further advancement, maybe even to Gargantuan, to account for these 12-tendriled behemoths?

 

[freyar]

The underbar for extra tendrils sounds good, as does Gargantuan. I notice now also that the current advancement has a 6-8HD line, even though the base critter already has 8 HD. What about 1 extra tendril per 2 extra HD and Advancement: 9-14 HD (Large), 15-20 HD (Huge), 21-24 HD (Gargantuan)?

Skills sound ok, but I don't know that they need so much into Bluff given their magical compulsions. For feats, maybe Power Attack, Dodge, and Lightning Reflexes?

 

[Cleon]

Added to Homebrews.

I added telepathy and spell resistance, as indicated in the orginal description.

It sounds like they would have decent Bluff skills, so perhaps a racial bonus and maybe Skill Focus?

I'd suggest splitting the skills between Bluff, Listen, and Spot.

That all sounds good.

Should we add an "advanced helborns" underbar to grant additional tendril attacks for every x Hit Dice gained? Thus the largest would have 12 tendrils, like the high end of the original description's range. Perhaps allow even further advancement, maybe even to Gargantuan, to account for these 12-tendriled behemoths?

I would prefer it if they had one tendril per 2 Hit Dice but can only full attack with 4 of them at a time, so the excess are only usable as replacements and to make Attacks of Opportunity.

Rather than an underbar, I'd just stick the information in the Combat entry. i.e.:

Hellborn attack with their tendrils, which they use to crush opponents before attempting to swallow them. Each plant has one tendril for every 2 Hit Dice it possesses, but can only attack with four of them with a full attack, surplus tendrils can make attacks of opportunity and serve as replacements if a tendril is sundered. An opponent can attack a hellborn's tendrils with a sunder attempt as if they were weapons. A hellborn's tendrils have 10 hit points each. If a hellborn is currently grappling a target with the tendril that is being attacked, it usually uses another limb to make its attack of opportunity against the opponent making the sunder attempt. Severing one of a hellborn's tentacles deals 5 points of damage to the creature. A hellborn usually withdraws from combat if it loses two tentacles. The creature regrows severed limbs in 1d10+10 days.