Mutants & Masterminds 3rd Edition

[Votan]

Comic Book Resources.

Nice website. Thank you for posting the link.

 

[Aus_Snow]

Huh. How about that then. M&M3.

I wonder what they will do to it. What I hope, but simultaneously doubt, is that there's less 'd20' (other than using only a d20, most likely) and more uniqueness, not for its own sake, but to make an overall better game.

This is not the 'd20 age' any more, so clinging *so* closely to those roots is simply unnecessary, IMO. Again, that which works best should earn the highest priority.

BIG news about their DC comics RPG, anyhow. And apparently, that will use the same rules.

 

[darjr]

The linked podcast has more details. No 3-18 stats, just the bonuses. Feats get changed and morphed. Grapple gets changed. And yes Mr. Kenson says that they are making 3rd edition less d20 more streamlined.

 

[Aus_Snow]

The linked podcast has more details. No 3-18 stats, just the bonuses. Feats get changed and morphed. Grapple gets changed. And yes Mr. Kenson says that they are making 3rd edition less d20 more streamlined.

Oh, I had missed that link. Thanks.

And good! Sounds promising so far. Also? About time, re: True20-style stats.


edit --- Er, is it just me, or does that mp3 need some serious normalisation? :\

 

[WayneLigon]

Yeah, I just read that yesterday, and was wondering what sorts of girders those were, that he could hoist 'em up.

I miss Wally West.

Wally rebuilt the bridge that runs between Central City and Keystone City with his bare hands. All the Flashes have been shown to move large weights not by picking them up with their hands, but by creating vortices of air. They've stopped trucks, planes, etc.

 

[coyote6]

Wally rebuilt the bridge that runs between Central City and Keystone City with his bare hands. All the Flashes have been shown to move large weights not by picking them up with their hands, but by creating vortices of air. They've stopped trucks, planes, etc.

I missed the bridge re-building; what issue was that in? Or, better, who was the writer of the issue? I found some scans online, and I think that was a bit dumb, too.

If the art had shown a bunch of little tornados holding up the girders, it wouldn't have bothered me; using superspeed to make tornados pick things up is classic. Both showed Barry and Wally carrying girders longer than they are, though, so now they are superstrong when running?. Maybe they got a good running start and gave 'em a good high-velocity shove, so they aren't so much carrying them as guiding the flying missiles? I dunno. Bah! It's the internet, I am required to say the writer sucks.

But hey, this is way off-topic. Hopefully, GR will post some stats for Wally or Barry soon, so we can all see what else has changed on the character sheets.

 

[Walking Dad]

Maybe theyiclude in the text the option for Super-Strength as alternate power for Super-Speed.

 

[Reynard]

There are two basic sorts of Supers games: those that are primarily focused on the genre within the confines of an RPG (M&M, Hero and Gurps Supers fall into this category) and those that attempt to capture the genre froma narrative/medium standpoint as well ("new school" games mostly, though Brave New World's Trick system did a decent job emulating certain aspect of comicbook combat).

I think the mistake that gets made or the confusion that occurs most is assuming that a super-hero genre game should be able to emulate the narrative aspects of the media which most often include supers. This happens in other genres, too, but supers seems to suffer the most. Gamers are gamers, regardless of the genre, IME and give a D&D player Superman and he'll be ruling the world in the first session. And never, ever give a gamer superspeed -- either you'll end up spending the entire session arguing about relativity, or the campaign setting with be irrevocably changed ten minutes in.

I joke, but my point is this: supers gaming is *not* the same as comic book gaming. Hero and M&M have both been very successful as crunchy supers games, without deeply ingrained genre emulation meta-rules. Genre emulation is, IMO, better left to handwavium and houserules and, most of all, simple agreement between the participants that they are, in fact, playing a super hero game and neither getting rich on the poker tour via telepathy nor murdering every crack dealer in the 'hood is appropriate for the game being played (unless it is).

 

[Jeff Wilder]

Genre emulation is, IMO, better left to handwavium and houserules and, most of all, simple agreement between the participants that they are, in fact, playing a super hero game and neither getting rich on the poker tour via telepathy nor murdering every crack dealer in the 'hood is appropriate for the game being played (unless it is).

Exactly.

If a GM is having trouble with speedsters being "out of control" or "too powerful," this is a result of the GM and players not having reached sufficient agreement that they're going to play "comic book reality." It's not a problem with the system.

If the GM and players want to explore "what would this be like in real life," well, first of all, "Yow, good luck." Second of all, any limits on realism should be set by the GM, not be part of the default assumptions of the game.

I listened to the podcast linked above, and the part that struck me most was SK's observation that M&M2 already has more constraints on things than he, personally, would choose. He prefers the freedom to set the limits on a case-by-case basis, as was more the situation in M&M1.

I'm in complete agreement with him, with the caveat that I want and need advice on potential pitfalls (like those provided in M&M products already, but to an even greater extent). I don't need much in the way of cautions for things like Super-Speed, but that's just where my personal line is ... if there were a sidebar about problems high ranks of Super-Speed could cause in a game, I wouldn't rail against it.

 

[Doug McCrae]

This happens in other genres, too, but supers seems to suffer the most.

I think this is because superhero comics aren't just unrealistic in terms of the powers, what technology can do, magic, etc, but also because there are so many genre rules. Superbeings are either very altruistic or very immoral. Taking off your glasses or wearing a mask hides your identity from loved ones. And so on. There are tons of these.

Personally I love them, I love them all. I'm a huge fan of the genre, particularly the silver age goofiness. Incidentally my current thinking is that the best way to run a supers game is to have all the crazy silver age fun stuff - talking gorillas, radioactive teenagers, alien invasions, villain theme teams, gadget obsessed villains like Flash's rogues gallery - but with a relatively realistic modern psychology. You still need the costumes, code names and mostly the good/evil duality tho, otherwise it just ain't comics.

I do find myself disatisfied with games like M&M, for my taste it doesn't go far enough in implementing the genre rules. The crunchy D&D3e style combat is good, tho still a million miles away from the way fights work in comics - highly mobile, rising to a crescendo, not decided by a debuff in round 1.