Lolth!

[Runestar]

Note to self: When you get MM3, open up Lolth, next to "Immune poison" write down ", stun, daze".

I don't see why gods couldn't have such immunities. You could add even a few more like "attack penalty, save penalty, vulnerability". Those immunities ought to make it an interesting fight.

I thought the general tradeoff behind the short durations for daze/stun/misc disabling effect (compared to 3e at any rate) is exactly that you get to use them on virtually any foe. Similarly, sneak attack does less damage, but you can use them on any enemy.

Giving blanket immunity would kinda defeat the purpose, IMO.

 

[Puggins]

I'm considering replacing "until end of turn" effects with "(any attempted save ends this effect)."

In Lolth's case, it would make her absolutely immune to "until end of turn" effects, but hey... she's a god.

 

[keterys]

I'd suggest just changing them to any successful save also ends this effect, and keeping the end of next turn as a maximum.

But, whatever's easier. The tricky part there will be some classes won't be able to mark her. At all.

 

[Puggins]

I'd suggest just changing them to any successful save also ends this effect, and keeping the end of next turn as a maximum.

But, whatever's easier. The tricky part there will be some classes won't be able to mark her. At all.

Ah, I wasn't talking about a blanket replacement- should've been more nuanced when I said it. Marking effects would be an obvious exception. Can't think of any other off the top of my head, but I'm sure there are some.

I think your version is probably better, if not longer in wording... "until the end of the target's next turn or until the target successfully saves against this effect."

 

[Al'Kelhar]

These stats definitely seem to be just for the first part of a multi-part fight: the hit points are fairly low - standard for a 35th-level elite skirmisher or controller with 29 Constitution.

Yep. HP are very low. At first I assumed that maybe they increased damage to compensate - but no such luck.

A multi-part fight makes sense and sounds interesting!

Her AC, Reflex, and Will are high for a level 35 lurker -- a deviation from the MM2 and Monster Builder math, but then again, she's Lolth.

Everyone knows the real Lolth has AC -10 and 66hp.

Cheers, Al'Kelhar

 

[spinmd]

FWIW, when the mechanics of being a "deity" were first introduced in the Draconomicon: Chromatic Dragons, it said the following in the sidebar:

From pg 244

Deities always roll saving throws in response to an attack or effect that imposes a condition or deals ongoing damage, even if that effect normally does not allow a saving throw.

Personally, I would play Lolth like that.

 

[Mengu]

I thought the general tradeoff behind the short durations for daze/stun/misc disabling effect (compared to 3e at any rate) is exactly that you get to use them on virtually any foe. Similarly, sneak attack does less damage, but you can use them on any enemy.

Yeah, unfortunately, person 1 stuns round 1, person 2 stuns round 2, Lolth dies her first death. And her dirtiest trick on dominating someone can't even be used when she is dazed.

For a solo, 1 round of stun is not a "short duration", it is an eternity. 5 PC's get to beat on her in that duration, and then 5 PC's get to beat on her again until she can get a turn, assuming she hasn't been stunned again by someone else.

Even if she is immune to stun and daze, she can be taken down but at least, it'll be a fight. I'm not normally a fan of neutering a PC's ability either but, I'll make exceptions for gods.

As a more general note, if a solo takes 5 turns, and if stun takes away 1 of those turns, it would be fair. If a solo takes 1 turn, and it takes 5 stuns to take that turn away, it would again be fair. But when a solo takes 1 turn and 1 stun takes it away, the solo doesn't really have a chance. This is the fundamental reason for solos being such push overs. Any condition inflicted on a solo is 5 times as powerful.

 

[Mirtek]

FWIW, when the mechanics of being a "deity" were first introduced in the Draconomicon: Chromatic Dragons, it said the following in the sidebar:

From pg 244

Deities always roll saving throws in response to an attack or effect that imposes a condition or deals ongoing damage, even if that effect normally does not allow a saving throw.

Personally, I would play Lolth like that.

But they already changed it to only effects that allow a saving throw for Vecna and Torog

 

[Jhaelen]

But they already changed it to only effects that allow a saving throw for Vecna and Torog

Well, that's because Vecna and Torog are weakling gods

 

[UngeheuerLich]

There needs to be a general rule, that conditions can always be saved against, no matter what the power says...

this would not only make monster resilence abilities better, but also player abilities that grant saves, which will ultimately lead to more fun.

As a second rule: powers always last until the end of your next turn if a miss entry says that, even if the save at the end of turn was successfull.