D&D on CNN!

[Shemeska]

Now if they'd just reprint the old D&D ones...

Ebay and lots of patience (and lots of 1 second left auction sniping).

 

[Argyle King]

Pretty accurate, if you're talking to somebody who's old enough to remember those. Do they still make them? I haven't seen any in quite a while...

I've mostly introduced teenagers to D&D, and I sold them on it by saying it was similar to a video game, but played on a board. (Heresy! But I knew the people I was talking to; describing it as "storytelling" wouldn't have made them interested in playing.) FWIW, this was back in 3E days.

I will admit that is an obstacle sometimes; I don't think those things are made anymore. I wish they were though. They were usually a lot of fun.
Usually, if they don't know what CYOA Books are, I describe rpgs like playing a part in a movie except they get to choose what their character does instead of the movie being scripted.

Occasionally I make the connection between rpgs and video games by explaning that a lot of video games figure out how much damage things are supposed to do by using formulas which are based upon concepts found in pen & paper games. However, if I do so, I usually use this in conjunction with something else because I don't like describing rpgs as being so combat focused. Combat is usually a big part, but not the only part.



The hardest question for me to answer is when someone asks "well, how do you win?" Sometimes it can be hard to convey the idea that a rpg (usually) doesn't have winners and losers in the same sense that a video game or a board game does.


One big thing I've noticed is that the attitude you display when talking about games tends to help or hurt the ability to attract new players. I in no way act ashamed of my hobbies nor do I act in such a way to express any sort of social stigma associated with rpgs, and I've had pretty darn good luck getting people into the hobby. You'd be surprised at the type of people I've played with.

I think the most amusing experience I ever had was having a player refuse to play D&D because it was 'Satanic' or whatever it was that he believed, but then being perfectly fine with playing Rifts and GURPS. I tried to explain to him that D&D didn't actually encourage anything potrayed by Jack Chick, but he was dead set against it. Apparently, playing a cold-hearted bootlegging mobster in a GURPS game and gunning down police while breaking the law was perfectly fine, but orcs and d20s were blasphemy.

Maybe that explains why almost half of my gaming friends are female. But actually to be fair that was the description I usually give to relatives who suspect 80s era Satanism games or whatever.
.

Same here...

While my regular group is mostly male. I've played with a fair amount of female players.

Actually, just yesterday I sat down with the new g/f and some of her friends for a game of Cthulu Dice. While that's not an rpg, it's not the first time I've showcased some of the games I own to them. They're pretty receptive to trying the games I have to offer and roleplaying.

 

[nedjer]

Same here...

While my regular group is mostly male. I've played with a fair amount of female players.

Actually, just yesterday I sat down with the new g/f and some of her friends for a game of Cthulu Dice. While that's not an rpg, it's not the first time I've showcased some of the games I own to them. They're pretty receptive to trying the games I have to offer and roleplaying.

Putting a blog post together on girls and tabletop RPGs this morning but it's turning into a two or three parter. I'll never get it out today, because it's amazing how much 'we' the tabletop RPG majority do (often unwittingly) to turn girls and women away from the hobby.

As I continue to research, (yeah we do that, not after making idle comment here), I'm beginning to suspect part of 'the problem', (and I see it as a problem), is that in some ways girls are generally better at roleplaying, (at a younger age), and we guys react by delivering a 'culture' not dissimilar from the golf and cricket clubs which, (even today), try to exclude women or offer them admission providing they accept a system of apartheid.

 

[ourchair]

Trying to get someone to play 4e based on their love of 1e/2e is a tough sell. A few might be interested, but I'd bet that most lapsed 1e/2e players wouldn't be interested because the game bears little resemblance to what they're familiar with.

You're assuming that ALL people who've played 1e/2e require that a return to role-playing must be a system that is identical to what they played 10-20 years ago.

Now, I'm not saying those people don't exist. There are certain people who, upon a cursory glance at 4e, won't give it a chance or at the very least, will be put off by their first play, simply because of the disconnect they perceive between 4e and 1e/2e, much like how older people refused to read Ultimate comics because of the mental disconnect between their memories of their Marvel mainstream "616" continuity counterparts.

Then there are those people who stopped playing and want to get back into the hobby on more accessible terms. These people don't have the inclination to pick nits over why 4e is so different from 1e/2e. It's not that they don't notice those differences. It's because it really doesn't matter to them and the notion of digging up OOP materials and enduring the cumbersome prep that they used to do when they were teenagers with copious amounts of free time really isn't very appealing when compared to the pick up and play aspect of 4e.[/QUOTE]

My best guess is this "lapsed player" effort is probably aimed at getting lapsed 3e players to give 4e another look. The 1e/2e crowd is probably out of reach.

I like how this remark insinuates that there is a complete socio-psychological difference between 1e/2e players and 3e players.

"Suck buddies forever!" *

* Line stollen from Penny Arcade.

I'm pretty sure that was from PVP Online.

My encyclopedic knowledge of PA knows it.

 

[Dire Bare]

As I continue to research, (yeah we do that, not after making idle comment here), I'm beginning to suspect part of 'the problem', (and I see it as a problem), is that in some ways girls are generally better at roleplaying, (at a younger age), and we guys react by delivering a 'culture' not dissimilar from the golf and cricket clubs which, (even today), try to exclude women or offer them admission providing they accept a system of apartheid.

I don't know if I'm buying all you're selling, but I agree that the RPG hobby is often a "boy's club" and sometimes, some of us boys get all territorial when the girls try to invade our space.

While I personally prefer to game with friends, regardless of gender or orientation, I've noticed that several of my past games (not all) took on the atmosphere of "Poker Night" or "Guy's Night Out". All male groups taking the chance to get away from the wife/gf and kids for an evening and revel in geeky guyness (lots of off-color humor, and waaaaay to much flatulence). It was interesting to observe our behavior when we thought we were alone, and how it changed when the hostess walked in to ask her hubby a question. If one of our female friends had asked to join in the game, we would have happily invited her, but it would have changed the dynamic entirely and I don't doubt there would be some unvoiced resentment.

I know when I was a kid, the D&D games were a chance to escape from the cruel world we didn't fully fit into or understand, and that included girls!

 

[nedjer]

I don't know if I'm buying all you're selling, but I agree that the RPG hobby is often a "boy's club" and sometimes, some of us boys get all territorial when the girls try to invade our space.

While I personally prefer to game with friends, regardless of gender or orientation, I've noticed that several of my past games (not all) took on the atmosphere of "Poker Night" or "Guy's Night Out". All male groups taking the chance to get away from the wife/gf and kids for an evening and revel in geeky guyness (lots of off-color humor, and waaaaay to much flatulence). It was interesting to observe our behavior when we thought we were alone, and how it changed when the hostess walked in to ask her hubby a question. If one of our female friends had asked to join in the game, we would have happily invited her, but it would have changed the dynamic entirely and I don't doubt there would be some unvoiced resentment.

I know when I was a kid, the D&D games were a chance to escape from the cruel world we didn't fully fit into or understand, and that included girls!

Still haven't signed off on the now multiple post. Players are entitled to play with who they like, but it looks very like those who might want more girls at the table, or more of the family to play, could make a big difference quite easily.

I may be biased here, as I've never conceptualised girls as distant or hard to understand. Closer the better suits me. So I'm not quite sure how a night of 'geeky goodness' stacks up alongside a night of subtle, perfumed, sultry gorgeousness.

 

[WheresMyD20]

You're assuming that ALL people who've played 1e/2e require that a return to role-playing must be a system that is identical to what they played 10-20 years ago.

Please read my quote more carefully. I said "I'd bet that most lapsed 1e/2e players wouldn't be interested." (underline added)

I like how this remark insinuates that there is a complete socio-psychological difference between 1e/2e players and 3e players.

I'm not sure how you're making that leap when you jump to that conclusion. I can assure you that any "socio-psychological" insinuations you're referring to are a product of your own imagination.

The point that I've been making is that there is a bigger jump from 1e/2e to 4e, both in rules and play style, than there is from 3e to 4e.

From my point of view, I don't think a lot of 1e/2e players will come back after 20 years. Yes, there have been a couple of individuals who have posted that they did, but that is hardly evidence that 20-year lapsed 1e/2e players are coming back in large numbers. Note that I never said that NO 1e/2e players would come back, I just said that I didn't think MANY would.

 

[Mark]

(. . .) I don't think a lot of 1e/2e players will come back after 20 years. Yes, there have been a couple of individuals who have posted that they did, but that is hardly evidence that 20-year lapsed 1e/2e players are coming back in large numbers. Note that I never said that NO 1e/2e players would come back, I just said that I didn't think MANY would.

That's got little to do with editions and more to do with giving up this type of gaming entriely, I am sure, so lumping it all in with a discussion of the difference jumps from edition to edition is probably misleading and/or confusing.

 

[Argyle King]

That's got little to do with editions and more to do with giving up this type of gaming entriely, I am sure, so lumping it all in with a discussion of the difference jumps from edition to edition is probably misleading and/or confusing.

There is also a not-so-small contingent of gamers who started with D&D, but have since moved to other systems. For many people, D&D is their introduction to rpgs due to the popularity of the brand name. Then, as time goes on, they try other similar games and possibly find a different game which suits their tastes better.

It's like spending years drinking Pepsi and then one day deciding to try the local grocery store's cola only to find that you actually enjoy it more than the name brand. Plenty of people will still continue to buy the name brand due to the strength of the brand. However, there will be enough people who try the other brands to keep those brands and business and even possibly allow some of those smaller brands to become more well known.

 

[Scribble]

As for the 20 year lapsed players not returning because it's a new edition, and they won't be comfortable with it...

20 years is a LONG time!

Around 20 years ago I spent 3 weeks in a little bed and breakfast in Germany. Apparently a whole bunch of people staying there played Parcheesi (I think that's how it's spelled) in the common area. They invited a bored little american boy to play the game, and even though I couldn't understand a word anyone was saying it was a ton of fun.

I haven't played Parcheesi since. I can't remember much about it, aside from it involving a board, some little peg things, and like landing on each other or something.

If someone invited me back to play an "updated" version I would probably have no clue which rules were new, which were old, and which were just rules a little american kid couldn't understand in the first place.