D&D on CNN!

[doctorhook]

"The game remains the same" was not in reference to board games. It was a selling point of 4E camparing it to earlier editions. My point was that either that is a crock of crap (in which case D&D does not play like a boardgame) or the current D&D game does indeed play like a board game,in which case "the game remains the same" was untrue.

Holy moley, man -- you don't quit, do you?

D&D is *similar* to a board game in many ways. It is also *different* from a prototypical boardgame in many ways. Moreover, D&D isn't now meaningfully more or less like a boardgame than it has always been (despite the protestations of some edition warriors).

The boardgame comparison is for the benefit of people unfamiliar with tabletop RPGs. For those of us familiar with tabletop RPGs, including everyone here, we can (more accurately) admit that the differences between D&D and boardgames outweigh the similarities.

D&D has remained the same -- it is not a boardgame. However, saying that it's like a boardgame isn't "a crock", because that's also true. "Boardgame" is a fairly arbitrary category, and D&D definitely falls along its fuzzy, grey border.

 

[Mallus]

Holy moley, man -- you don't quit, do you?

"The only way to win is not to play" - W.O.P.R.

That said, maybe I'll fork this thread so we can talk about comparing D&D to other things...

 

[ExploderWizard]

Holy moley, man -- you don't quit, do you?

D&D is *similar* to a board game in many ways. It is also *different* from a prototypical boardgame in many ways. Moreover, D&D isn't now meaningfully more or less like a boardgame than it has always been (despite the protestations of some edition warriors).

The boardgame comparison is for the benefit of people unfamiliar with tabletop RPGs. For those of us familiar with tabletop RPGs, including everyone here, we can (more accurately) admit that the differences between D&D and boardgames outweigh the similarities.

D&D has remained the same -- it is not a boardgame. However, saying that it's like a boardgame isn't "a crock", because that's also true. "Boardgame" is a fairly arbitrary category, and D&D definitely falls along its fuzzy, grey border.

I could argue that D&D is more of a dice game than a board game. I would be willing to bet that there are more play groups that play without minis and a map than play without dice. The strange multi-sided polyhedrals connect D&D through the ages as much if not more so than a map or minis.
Some people play with a board, others don't but they all use dice. So D&D isn't a dice game but it is like a dice game. D&D fits along the fuzzy grey border of dice games too.

This would be just as useless as board game to describe what D&D is about.

 

[Scribble]

This would be just as useless as board game to describe what D&D is about.

So don't use the analogy when describing the game to non gamers you know.

But some random person's choice to do so has no relevance whatsoever, on whether or not the game has remained "ze same."

Unless you're trying reallllly hard to argue that the game is no longer "ze same."

 

[ExploderWizard]

Unless you're trying reallllly hard to argue that the game is no longer "ze same."

Not my arguement at all. The statement is simply at odds with the boardgame comparison.

I'm using 4E to run my campaign and in style it is "ze same" as my 1E campaigns.

Which is to say, nothing like a boardgame.

 

[Maggan]

I'm rereading your first post and wondering why you chose this line to take a swipe in defense of 4e and against 3e when clearly 4e would be no more welcome at those sites than 3e. Clearly, the people at those sites have not "moved on to 4E" as you mention.

Hmmm, I'm not sure I follow you. "Swipe in defense of 4e and against 3e"?

I'm not ... or at least I labour under the belief that I am not ... defending 4e and swiping against 3e.

I've read some comments here and on RPGnet (sorry, no links, I don't have the time to search for individual posts to back it up) that claim that the rage versus 4e is unprecedented and has reached almost epic proportions (n.b. this is an exaggeration for effect, no epic proportions actually observed). I have made other observations in my own circle of gamers, and I believe that it is actually a fairly non-controversial comment to say that edition warring is nothing new, not related mainly to 4e versus everything else and that there have been fierce edition wars even between earlier editions than 3e and 4e.

Also, I would think it to be a logical conclusion that many of those who railed at 3e as not being true 4e, are now railing against 4e for the same reason. Not much fun hammering a game that isn't published any more.

But I'm not claiming omniscience, and I only have my own observation and my own bias to base my opinions on, and they are no more valid than those who have observed the opposite of what I describe.

Cheers!

/M

 

[Scribble]

Not my arguement at all. The statement is simply at odds with the boardgame comparison.

I'm using 4E to run my campaign and in style it is "ze same" as my 1E campaigns.

Which is to say, nothing like a boardgame.

You know that part in like every Peanuts cartoon where Charlie Brown goes Arrrrg!!!!?

Congrats.. you have now made me like Charlie Brown. In some ways.

Wait no... cause then that would invalidate my status as a human being, since Charlie Brown is a cartoon and therefore nothing like a human, even though some people would be under the opinion that cartoon humans are like humans in many ways so maybe wait.... man I'm so confused right now.

Go Local Sports Team!

 

[Herschel]

Isn't that kind of confusing because most of your local sports teams claim to be from other states? (Giants, Jets)

 

[Piratecat]

ExploderWizard -- time to give it a rest.

 

[Mark]

I think he means their griping has moved on. IE now instead of griping about 3e they gripe about 4e.

I should have asked him to clarify that too. I don't recall Maggan posting so cryptically in the past. Seems to be all over the place. Thanks for the clarification.