General Monster Manual 3 Thread

[Lancelot]

What handful of monsters in MM3 really caught your interest/attention (for whatever reason - be it mechanics, fluff, picture, 'is just too perfect timing for what you happened to need in your game' etc)??

Mechanics?

• No specific monster, but there are multiple (at least 6 different types, from ogres to banderhobbs to meazels to cave fishers) that have an "abduction" mechanic. They lunge in, grab a character, and immediately begin tugging him away from the rest of the group. That can set up a nice dynamic with appropriate terrain, such as trying to drag the poor victim into a pit, or down a pitch-blach shaft. Very tense for the others, desperately trying to mount a rescue attempt.
• There are several "choice" mechanics, such as: "You can either take 20 psychic damage, or choose to charge one of your own allies" or the nymph's Whisper Game: "save vs this effect and it passes to one of your allies... whoever has it last suffers a really punishing effect when the nymph dies". These all add suspense within the fight.
• There are several monsters that make really good use of minions. The paelyrion (corruption) devil has 5-6 different types of minions, and each has a radically different impact on the battle (lethargy, lust, carnage, greed, etc). The oblivion moss can target PCs with its powers and form minions based on their role: defender, striker, leader, controller. Again, these have different impacts on the battle depending on their type.
• There are 4 big bad solos: Lolth, Imix, Ogremoch and Allabar (basically, a Lovecraftian Old One), plus some very powerful "lesser bosses" such as Eclavdra, Elder Brains and so forth. There are new Epic-level yuan-ti and drow, and some of the latter could be campaign-ending villains as well. All of them were very nicely differentiated, with some very flavorsome powers.

Fluff-wise...

• Yeah, the banderhobbs. Everyone is talking about them. I guess is because they bring that whole "monster-under-the-bed" vibe (explicitly mentioned in the flavor text). The art is great, the powers are evocative. It's rare that I see a new creature that has never appeared before in D&D and immediately think: "That's a classic".
• There's a genuine "old school" feel to the book, with a lot of classic creatures updated.
• Excellent selection of demons and devils (always my favorites). Ultroloths (...sory, ultrodemons), nalfeshnees, cambions, molydei, babaus, paelyrions, quasits, narzugons, klurichirs, etc. They seem to have covered off all the outstanding big name demons/devils from previous editions; much more so than MM2, which largely introduced a bunch of "new" demons/devils that had never appeared before.

What didn't I care for?

• The new 4e norkers didn't do much for me. I never associated norkers with paragon-tier elemental creatures before, so that was a bit of a let-down. However, the new 4e xvarts (sorry, xivorts) are buckets of fun. Great art, too.
• Having both the Forsaken and the Tulgar was maybe a little too much. I know they're radically different, but they both struck me as: uber-epic, humanoid, enemies of the gods. Throw the weavers into the mix as well (they also meet the description) and there seem to be a few too many high epic-level humanoid races around. I'd rather see classic enemies (krakens, demon lords, abominations) in the high epic-levels, rather than: "You walk into a room. There are 4x 27th level forsaken/tulgar/weaver guards here, and a 29th level leader-type" It's not really... epic, you know?

 

[Rechan]

Mechanics?

• No specific monster, but there are multiple (at least 6 different types, from ogres to banderhobbs to meazels to cave fishers) that have an "abduction" mechanic. They lunge in, grab a character, and immediately begin tugging him away from the rest of the group. That can set up a nice dynamic with appropriate terrain, such as trying to drag the poor victim into a pit, or down a pitch-blach shaft. Very tense for the others, desperately trying to mount a rescue attempt.

That was common in the MM2 as well. Ankheg, several demons (the nycademon and another level 8 lurker), and a few others.

• Having both the Forsaken and the Tulgar was maybe a little too much. I know they're radically different, but they both struck me as: uber-epic, humanoid, enemies of the gods. Throw the weavers into the mix as well (they also meet the description) and there seem to be a few too many high epic-level humanoid races around. I'd rather see classic enemies (krakens, demon lords, abominations) in the high epic-levels, rather than: "You walk into a room. There are 4x 27th level forsaken/tulgar/weaver guards here, and a 29th level leader-type" It's not really... epic, you know?

You have to fill 10 levels of epic level fights. If everything's a god etc, you're going to run out of stuff to fight, or you're going to go through the entire multiverse slaughtering everything just to fill the 10 levels worth.

You also forgot that the Yaun-Ti and Drow in the book were epic level.

 

[Rechan]

'is just too perfect timing for what you happened to need in your game' etc)??

Crauds, cave fishers.

 

[Wik]

I agree with Rechan - both of those caught my eye pretty quickly. Meazels are also high on my list - their mechanics are particularly cool (they more or less snipe and pull away).

Low level elementals that consist of one element type are great to see. And it's real awesome to see the Nagpa again!

 

[Scribble]

How about for a DM that uses DDI heavily? Is the non-crunch stuff worthwhile?

Yeah I agree with Aegeri on this one...

I found it worth it, and I never use the actual books for their stats, as the DDI/Monster builder makes it so much easier. I liked the flavor though, so that's primarily why I bought it.

I thought they did a decent job of including flavor, yet still keeping the book "easy to use" at the table.

I DO wish though that they had still broken up the knowledge section... If only into different DC levels of info you might know.

Shrug.

 

[Zaran]

So there is no Donkeyhorse? Not even in the Epic tier?

 

[Stoat]

How about for a DM that uses DDI heavily? Is the non-crunch stuff worthwhile?

I uses the DDI heavily. Indeed, I never check the books for stats.

I think the non-crunch stuff in MM3 is quite worthwhile. It's more evocative, and the "encounters" section is more useful. Also, WotC put most of the "traditional" monsters in MM1 and 2. In some cases, the fluff in MM3 is necessary just to explain what the monsters are.

Banderhobs, Tulgar and Forsaken come immediately to mind. Without flavor text, I wouldn't have any idea what they were.

 

[the Jester]

So there is no Donkeyhorse? Not even in the Epic tier?

I understand it got bumped to MM4 because of space. They had to either cut it or the Imix entry; I guess they figured that the various donkeyhorse entries couldn't be thinned down any more than Imix and his cultists could be.

 

[Scribble]

Yeah... if you're looking for like habitat and society type stuff like from the old 2e Monstrous Compendium... This isn't it.

But here's kind of a breakdown of how stuff works:

The first part is an overview of what the monster group is in general, along with a short history and kind of how they relate to each other and the world.

Some are a little more storyish then others... This seems to come up mostly when I think they're trying to make the origin/history a little more unknown...

Like the Cloaker and the Banderhob. It's explained that they exist, and kind of how they interact with the world, but no history or specifics.

The Lore section is a chunk of info a character might know, from a sort of in game perspective.

Encounters is kind of like if you took the encounter groups thing from the other MMs but then expanded on WHY these various things might be hanging out together, and took out the numbers. Basically it gives ideas of what the heck might be happening when the PCs encounter the monster.

Each version of the monster is given a brief intro, which kind of gives you an idea of their role in the world... For the creatures that seem less like an opponent that you would just jump into a fight with, they tend to be more story like, and more about how they might interact with someone when you first encounter them... (Like the Nymphs.) For others it seems to be an overview of their role in a fight. (And by role I mean they defend the lair, or they are the shock troops, as opposed to game role...)

The in combat section seems to be like a high level overview of how they behave in combat, as opposed to a primer on actual tactics.


Sometimes they have sidebars- these run the gamut but are usually additional interesting stuff about the monster group. Like about their lairs, or in the case of spiders, how to do spiderwebs as a hazard...



Overall I like it... The flavor gives me ideas for future adventures which is primarily why I bought it, and in my opinion enough info to bring each monster to life, and make it feel more like a "living thing" but without getting bogged down into weird minutia.


The stats I'll just be using via the DDI.

 

[malraux]

Encounters is kind of like if you took the encounter groups thing from the other MMs but then expanded on WHY these various things might be hanging out together, and took out the numbers. Basically it gives ideas of what the heck might be happening when the PCs encounter the monster.

That sounds promising. Guess I'll add this one to my list.