D&D 3E/3.5 Helping a Former 3.5 Player Get 4e

[LuckyBoneDice]

I recently got the 4e PHB/DMG/MMI book trio, and my buddy's starting 4e with a campaign.

Here's what I get now:

No LA
No ASF
No BAB
Better Class vs Class balance

what I want to understand

Essentially everything else

I kind of am confused and could use a hand. Thanks y'all

 

[the Jester]

The best way to get a quick overview of 4e imho is to look at the quick-start rules, which you should be able to DL from wizards.com. They're in the free Keep on the Shadowfell adventure on their site.

In essence, you've already touched on some of the changes. The really big one is the power system though. In general:

-Every pc has powers that they can use all day, so the wizard never again needs to throw a dagger or shoot a crossbow.

-The system reads very poorly but runs very well once the dm has the hang of it.

-Everyone gets better at everything as they go up in levels. A 20th level wizard is going to be better at picking pockets than most 1st level rogues because of the "half level bonus" (you add 1/2 your level to attacks, defenses, skill and ability checks).

-Every attack has a roll to hit now (instead of a saving throw to avoid it), allowing casters to roll more attacks (= fun). On the other hand, magic missile doesn't automatically hit anymore. (Okay, there are a very, very few automatic hit attacks in the game, but they're VERY few and far between.)

 

[Obryn]

Hello, and welcome!

Well, as you can see from just looking at the book, a lot has changed, and a lot will seem counter-intuitive. Things to keep in mind...

(1) What would have been a small or insignificant bonus or penalty in 3.x makes a huge difference in 4e. A +1 to-hit is a big deal. A +1 to defenses is a big deal. This is all because DCs are usually set to give you somewhere approximating a 50% hit chance.

(2) By the same token, most bonuses and penalties have been reduced. As an example, Charging is a +1 bonus, and Cover is a -2 penalty.

(3) Almost everything follows the basic progression of (1/2 Level + Ability Modifier + Misc). This includes attack rolls; those are no longer the main source of difference between combatant and non-combatant classes.

(4) The difference in classes is found in their special abilities and in their powers, not in the math behind those abilities and powers. On paper, a Wizard and a Fighter may look fairly similar - both have similar bonuses with their main attacks, their ACs won't be too far apart, and the HP difference might be 50% instead of 100%+. In play, they work intensely differently, and you couldn't possibly mistake one for the other.

(5) Your At-Will powers are part of the way your class is defined. Ideally, you will almost never make a Basic Attack. Use an At-Will power whenever possible.

(6) As a general character-creation note, if all you're using are the core 3 books, don't spread your stats too far out. You want, after modifiers to have at least a 16 in every stat you'll be attacking with. An 18 is honestly ideal. So, if you're a Cleric, Paladin, or Warlock, try and focus on one of the two main attack stats. (Every class since PHB1 has had only one main attack stat, and two or more secondary stats for "rider effects.")

(7) If you're starting from Level 1, grab the character builder! It's pretty awesome.

...more as I think about it.

I hope you get a kick out of it!

-O

 

[FireLance]

The following is a quick copy and paste from another thread about some of what I would consider to be the key mechanical changes:

Powers: In addition to abilities that can be used at will (such as a normal attack with a weapon) and abilities that are regained after a night's rest (such as prepared spells in 3e and earlier editions) 4E has encounter abilities that are regained after a short 5-minute rest. In addition, all characters have at-will, encounter and daily abilities: fighters have at-will, encounter and daily weapon attacks, and wizards have at-will, encounter and daily spells.

Uniform Advancement: PCs tend to advance at the same rate. Unlike previous editions, where a fighter's attack bonus or THACO would improve faster than a wizard's, 4E PCs gain bonuses to attacks, defenses and skill checks at the same rate. In addition, most PCs gain additional encounter and daily powers at the same rate too. Do note that in spite of the uniform rate of advancement, many PCs start with advantages (proficiencies, complementary ability scores, bonuses from their class, etc.) which allow them to maintain a relative advantage in the areas which they are supposed to be good at compared to the other PCs.

Character Toughness: Low-level characters in 4E tend to be hardier than low-level characters in earlier editions, in the sense that it usually takes more than a single lucky hit from a monster to put them down, and once down, it is relatively easier for them to come back up, either during the fight or after it. It does not mean that individual fights are easier to win (that really depends on the relative strrength between the PCs and their opponents), but it does make chance less of a factor in determining the outcome of the fights.

Character Complexity: At the same time, low-level characters in 4E tend to be more complex than low-level characters in earlier editions. A typical 1st-level character will have access to two at-will powers, one encounter power and one daily power from his class, and another power from his race, in addition to "standard" options such as making a basic attack, making a charge attack, taking a second wind, and spending an action point (if he has one available).​

 

[Solvarn]

Plays differently

4E plays really differently than 3E. I didn't think I'd like 4E until I played it. If Wizards did game days based around old modules they'd hook a lot more old gamers imo.

 

[cdrcjsn]

One of the things that trip up people coming into 4e from 3e is Opportunity Attacks (Attacks of Opportunity in 3e).

Only a few things trigger OAs.

1) Attacking with a ranged or area power adjacent to an enemy.
2) Moving from a square adjacent to an enemy.

That's it.

You can stand up from prone, pick up a weapon, and do other sorts of things that would normally trigger AoOs in the old version.

Also, there's a difference between Area attacks (fireball) and Close attacks (thunderwave) even though they both use burst and blast designations. Close attacks don't trigger OAs.

 

[abyssaldeath]

1) You can use more than one encounter power per encounter and more than one daily power per day.

2) You can't attack with two weapons unless you have a power that lets you do so. Example: Twin Strike

 

[LuckyBoneDice]

Thanks y'all. Though helpful, Im still barely grasping the system. Maybe after playing, I'll get 4e

 

[Scribble]

Thanks y'all. Though helpful, Im still barely grasping the system. Maybe after playing, I'll get 4e

Don't worry- it looks a lot more intimidating then it ends up being Once you start I think you'll pick it up pretty quickly.

 

[Shazman]

Another thing to rememer is that monsters take a lot more damage before they go down. If you run into a bunch of kobolds, you are not going to drop them in one hit. In fact, unless they are minions, they are probably going to have more hit points than anyone in your party. It takes a lot more hits to take monsters down, which means that combat takes a lot longer. Do not expect a 1st level fight to be over in 30 minutes or less. It will most likely take three times that long.