Dragon 338: Returning to Athas, part1

[Wik]

I only played Dark Sun through the cRPGs... which, although buggy, were a lot of fun. You *could* play as a cleric, but it was a cleric of an element rather than of a god. I don't understand why they can't do that for the new Dark Sun... although thematically maybe all radiant damage should be converted to the relevant damage type for the element.

Those games WERE fun. Especially when considered in light of the technology of the time. And 2e had Clerics. They were added because they were a necessary role in 2e at the time - you needed a healing source, and druids just couldn't cut it as dedicated healers. But in Dark Sun, druids got a power boost, and clerics got a power cut.

The 4e method of just replacing the "clerics" with the primal power source makes a lot of sense. It's thematically closer to the original dark sun, and it gets rid of many "radiant" attacks, which don't really fit well with how I envision Dark Sun, at least.

The thing is, they COULD tie a cleric's powers into an elemental subtype, and that would have been pretty cool. I also would be okay with Clerics/Divine casters choosing to worship one of the Sorcerer Kings (essentially, the Divine power type would be the "templar" power source).

All that being said, I think Aegeri has the right of it here. Dark Sun is better served by cutting out the power source entirely. It's less confusing for neophytes to the setting, and helps solidify things in gamers' minds.

It's also a really good step towards something that has nothing to do with Dark Sun at all - it shows that wotc is willing to make cuts in their game to suit a creative idea. I have a hope in my heart that, down the road when we see a 4e centric campaign setting, that there will be similar cuts (probably not as drastic) to define the setting.

 

[AdmundfortGeographer]

Except, how many monsters are going to be "From the feywild" instead of Athas, simply because it's an easier method? I imagine we're going to see a lot of the tougher, paragon tier monsters being originally "From the feywild".

Maybe. We already know the Belgoi is exiled from the Feywild. There are a handful of existing low-tier Dark Sun creatures I can see being re-flavored as exiles from the Feywild

I'm simply going to rip out the Feywild. For me, The Black is where the Feywild used to be.

 

[Wik]

Maybe. We already know the Belgoi is exiled from the Feywild. There are a handful of existing low-tier Dark Sun creatures I can see being re-flavored as exiles from the Feywild

I'm simply going to rip out the Feywild. For me, The Black is where the Feywild used to be.

Oo! I actually kind of like that!

 

[Aegeri]

That being said, I think it could have been cool if an effort was made to tie the divine classes into Elements (instead of deities).

Actually there is an elemental priest, but it's a primal theme and not strictly anything to do with the divine. I quoted Rodney Thompson in the previous post I made where he stated they wanted to avoid just adding divine - especially because in 2E it felt more like a "hack" to get healing added to the game.

Edit (Quote Inserted):

We definitely keep the idea of having a big hunk of people in Dark Sun be worshipers of the elements, we just didn't limit that to the divine classes (which, as someone else pointed out, kind of felt like it was a hack to keep the healing coming for 2nd Edition players). Obviously the themes tie into this (so keep an eye out for the next Design & Development column), but the nature of 4E's class structure makes it really easy to cut out an entire power source and still have the adventuring party be 100% functional.

 

[Wik]

Actually there is an elemental priest, but it's a primal theme and not strictly anything to do with the divine. I quoted Rodney Thompson in the previous post I made where he stated they wanted to avoid just adding divine - especially because in 2E it felt more like a "hack" to get healing added to the game.

Once I heard that "hack" bit, I totally realized it was true. And Rodney was dead accurate - the game does NOT need divine classes. I think mechanically "divine" classes that worship the sorcerer kings could be a neat touch, but I don't really care one way or another. The way it currently stands is, I think, the best approach.

***

For what it's worth, while there is no divine magic in Dark Sun, it is important to make the following statement:

While there are no "gods" on Athas, that does NOT mean there is no "religion". There are cults, priests, and everything else. They just don't necessarily have magical power.

I kind of wish 2e dark sun was wiling to play with that - there SHOULD be non-templars who fervently worship sorcerer kings and queens.

 

[AdmundfortGeographer]

Oo! I actually kind of like that!

What made it stick for me was imagining eladrin popping around a combat like Nightcrawler leaving behind a swiftly dissipating swirl of inky black vapors.

I think having eladrin working as the Feywild's defenders isn't enough of a change to the race. In fact, it feels like it isn't a change at all. Looking at how much elves were changed for Dark Sun, or halflings, or dwarves. It really feels like eladrins (from what we've been shown so far) get a minimalist makeover, and that feels like a letdown.

For me, the flavor I'm considering instead would have eladrin still favoring arcane arts with most tending towards defiling in their spellcasting, they just really don't care that it affects the world as it does. They are willful, happy participants in the destruction of the world, not a protector of anything but their self-interest. While elves mostly live in roaming tribes outside the city-states, the eladrin are thoroughly urbanized sticking to the shadows of the "elven quarter" of every city-state. Those city-elves of DS? 4e's eladrin.

 

[Herschel]

I think my first character will be a radiant power spellchucking Watersoul Genasi who starts his own cult. When there's no divine power source, might as well suck up any surplus adoration and give th eimpression that there is.

 

[Scribble]

Once I heard that "hack" bit, I totally realized it was true. And Rodney was dead accurate - the game does NOT need divine classes. I think mechanically "divine" classes that worship the sorcerer kings could be a neat touch, but I don't really care one way or another. The way it currently stands is, I think, the best approach.

You could maybe do this by re-flavoring a Warlord.

Wouldn't be true divine magic, but they might say it is (faith in our lord will heal you and all that.) Instead of motivational speeches, they'd deliver sermons on the battlefield to whip their followers into crazy faith fueled shape.

 

[Wik]

I think my first character will be a radiant power spellchucking Watersoul Genasi who starts his own cult. When there's no divine power source, might as well suck up any surplus adoration and give th eimpression that there is.

I'm pretty sure there will be no Genasi on athas... and watersoul is an incredibly poor choice, since you won't even be able to use any of your racial abilities....

However, the cult idea is a good one - I've always seen Athas as a place rife with cults. Most of them doomsday in nature.

 

[Obryn]

I'm pretty sure there will be no Genasi on athas... and watersoul is an incredibly poor choice, since you won't even be able to use any of your racial abilities....

However, the cult idea is a good one - I've always seen Athas as a place rife with cults. Most of them doomsday in nature.

I'm fairly certain Genasi won't get a mention. With that said, out of all the weirder races, they're one of the better fits. Moreso than shardminds, minotaurs, githzerai, etc. at least.

I mean, the whole "elemental humanoid" shtick kinda seems natural for Athas. I don't know about watersoul genasi, but firesoul in particular (and their cindersoul brethren) seem like a great fit.

-O