Daily powers replaced with class features for Fighter & Ranger

[Mengu]

Rangers just jam the twin strike button most of the time anyway, so not much change for them. A simple "You get two basic attacks per standard action" would yield more or less the same result as encounter powers and daily powers, making it the simplest class to play, all they would have would be utilities.

I'm curious to see what Fighters end up with since I feel daily powers are a potent and important part of their repertoire.

 

[KidSnide]

Seems a bit strange to me that they went to all of this trouble to make the classes more than "I just swing my sword again this round." just to change it back again a couple of years later. I'll guess we will have to wait and see what the actual results are when the books come out.

Well, they're not "changing it back" so much as they are creating an old-school simple fighter option to go along with the existing tactical fighter option.

Like almost everything else in the development process, WotC starts with their major new ideas (e.g. exception-based design, powers, consistent class mechanics) and then fills in the parts of the game that were left out of the first version. Just because PH1 omitted druids, bards and barbarians didn't mean they didn't belong in 4e. In the same way, just because fighters were tactically complex in PH1 doesn't mean a simple fighter doesn't fit with the rules.

-KS

 

[Pseudopsyche]

Seems a bit strange to me that they went to all of this trouble to make the classes more than "I just swing my sword again this round." just to change it back again a couple of years later. I'll guess we will have to wait and see what the actual results are when the books come out.

The fighter that appeared in the PHB1 is the first fighter I've ever wanted to play, but I'm glad that I'll have a simple class to hand to beginners. As I see it, WotC is not changing the fighter back to the way it was; they're adding the old style as another option. I like options.

 

[Prestidigitalis]

A class with a lot of new features might actually be MORE complex to play. Whereas dailys -- even stances -- have to be used to affect your choices, many features are "always on". And in the case of the current fighter, Combat Superiority and Combat Challenge are "on" when it's not your turn. Having to think about what to do when it's not your own turn is perhaps the biggest increase in complexity introduced by 4e.

 

[weiknarf]

Seems a bit strange to me that they went to all of this trouble to make the classes more than "I just swing my sword again this round." just to change it back again a couple of years later. I'll guess we will have to wait and see what the actual results are when the books come out.

Hawkeye

That's what the PH1 fighter is for.

 

[Prestidigitalis]

One advantage of a set of simplified class options is that it would be easier to come up with characters for a quick pick-up game, or to create a secondary character to play if one of your regular group misses a session due to an emergency and you are shorthanded.

 

[Xris Robin]

I must have been listening to a different podcast, because I didn't hear them say that at all.

 

[MrMyth]

I'm interested to see exactly how this is designed. They've mentioned the psionic rules as evidence they can tinker with the class design system - but it is worth noting that the psionic classes still have the same average amount of resources available, they just have their 'encounter' resources function differently than other classes.

So I'm wondering if the fighter will lose daily elements entirely, or instead have class features that only come up rarely, or are otherwise distributed in a way to be on par with daily powers.

I do like the idea of a simpler option. I do like their willingness to experiment. But I hope they don't break too far from the norm - I'd love to see them continuing in the trend of the psionic classes, finding a way to prevent options that work differently but are balanced on all the same levels as everything else you can play.

 

[mkill]

I must have been listening to a different podcast, because I didn't hear them say that at all.

Well, they did mention that Beastmaster Rangers can get a boost to their beast instead of one daily.

Everything else in this thread is jumping to conclusions, and pure speculation. In fact, nobody ever said Fighters don't get daily powers, it's just widely assumed. It's likely, but not confirmed.

However, speculations have been running wild all week, and I'm tired of writing yet another "that's not what they said" post. I'll just go to bed and read the Knight preview tomorrow.

 

[samursus]

Yeah, I only heard them say there is at least one class that doesn't have Dailies, not which one. Also think they mentioned one that has no at-wills... or more specifically at-will attack powers. And he then went on to clarify that basic attacks + special bonuses/effects would fill that role.