Daily powers replaced with class features for Fighter & Ranger

[ZephyrTR]

Personally I hated the idea of mundane classes with dailies. It just doesn't make sense to me. Figure these characters train and train to do these complex and powerful attacks, and they just do them once a day? Why? They don't seem particularly taxing on the body. The fighter's supposed to go and go, and so is the rogue and the ranger, and the Barbarian to a large extent, too.

I won't pass any judgments until i see what they're doing, but I definitely agree that the fighter is supposed to be straightforward, consistent, and physical. Dailies for martial classes just doesn't make sense. Never has.

 

[Mouseferatu]

I feel Wizards thinks that the new player is a dumb player and that they can not handle what is pretty much a simple game with all the things you need to know right there on the power.

It's not a question of stupid. It's a question of the way some people thing, and some people's preferences.

I've played 4E with quite a few people--perfectly intelligent people--who just never really grasped the complexity of the rules, or who would have preferred playing simpler characters than the ones in the book. Not everyone likes as much tactical decision-making as others.

If the new builds can satisfy these players, more power to 'em. It's not taking the other builds away from the rest of us.

 

[The Little Raven]

The thing is, they don't need a new build for someone like this. Basic Attacks and class features do just fine with the builds we have.

Not really. Dropping daily powers (or even at-wills) without compensating for the loss of damage and conditions will severely reduce the effectiveness of any class.

I feel Wizards thinks that the new player is a dumb player and that they can not handle what is pretty much a simple game with all the things you need to know right there on the power.

Whoa, that's a massive jump to conclusions and pretty insulting motive to assign to Wizards for providing an option people on this very forum have expressed a desire for since 4e launched.

 

[Saeviomagy]

I've had multiple players ask if they have to use these complex powers, and can't they just hit someone with their sword?

So it's certainly something that's worth having.

There's no reason why, for instance, rogues couldn't simply have a rule that says "your basic attacks use dex and target reflex". That alone would make most of the at-will powers redundant.

 

[ggroy]

Essentials fighter preview.

Dungeons & Dragons Roleplaying Game Official Home Page - Article (Fighter Preview)

 

[Aegeri]

That is immensely different and infuriatingly little given on how it works as its so different. It doesn't seem to have at-will powers, encounter powers or daily powers. It's a really radical difference to the original fighter in every manner (to the point where it is clearly no longer a fighter anymore IMO). I love the aura idea though, but I'm confused how it interacts with marks or if marks are supplementary to it or what?

It does disappoint me in being a really terrible throwback to when fighters did nothing every round except swing their sword. Unless changing stances or similar every round is really important and useful. This is where information on the later "class features" that seem to replace encounter/daily powers do would be great, but is aggravatingly absent.

 

[YRUSirius]

Nah, I don't feel that the Knight's Fighter Stances are that much different from the PHB Fighter At-Wills. If you're activating the stance Cleaving Assault it's like making At-Will attacks with Cleave round after round. I'm not sure if beginners will see this specific mechanic as a simplification to the PHB Fighter. Maybe. Maybe not.

But I like the Defender aura power. Is Battle Guardian perhaps the new Combat Superiority?

 

[Aegeri]

Nah, I don't feel that the Knight's Fighter Stances are that much different from the PHB Fighter At-Wills. If you're activating the stance Cleaving Assault it's like making At-Will attacks with Cleave round after round.

Which doesn't happen much after a certain level. Except the essentials fighter has no encounter or daily powers that I can see, so might indeed end up spamming a basic attack all fight.

This is supposed to be an improvement how? The basic feature of the challenging aura is a fantastic one though, I will grant anyone that.

 

[Kingreaper]

Which doesn't happen much after a certain level. Except the essentials fighter has no encounter or daily powers that I can see, so might indeed end up spamming a basic attack all fight.

This is supposed to be an improvement how? The basic feature of the challenging aura is a fantastic one though, I will grant anyone that.

The essentials fighter certainly has encounter powers; there's one in the article. It's one you can just pull out after using a mba, but that's not too bad, makes it reliable without having to bother with the keyword (if you miss, you don't use the power)

I just hope they don't give multiples of that (or, if they do, they make sure that they can't stack)


And the stances are essentially a modified version of at-wills, that always work for OAs, charges, everything. That Battle Wrath stance needs scaling though.

 

[Aegeri]

That Battle Wrath stance needs scaling though.

It won't have to, remember that melee and ranged basic attacks like all at-will powers will scale to 2[W] by epic tier. Other at-wills already don't usually scale effects, just damage by level 21 and so these don't need scaling mods at all.