Daily powers replaced with class features for Fighter & Ranger

[CovertOps]

1. Whoa, hold it. Nothing has been said about the Ranger yet. Please don't create yet another raging fire of unfounded speculation here. Please mark your post with a big IF.

2. MBAs are Str - RBAs are Dex (except heavy thrown). That's V-shape to me... To make it A-shape, he'd need a feature to either make Dex-based MBAs or use Str with all ranged weapons.

Personally I think Rangers always should have been a DEX class. That way they could have been the "Dex Fighter" build all along with 2 swords. I suspect, however, that would have made MC Ranger/Rogue too viable/easy and possible OP.
Twin Strike
At-will
Attack: DEX vs. AC (melee or ranged)
etc.

 

[Herschel]

The knight has an encounter power, it's just a free action, can be announced after a hit and is rather dull.

 

[Hellzon]

Personally, I consider this a feature, not a bug. So what if a knight pumps some other ability score instead of Strength (and at the cost of a feat, to boot)? I don't see how that would unbalance the game*.

AbdulAlhazred schooled me in another thread. If you take Melee Training: Constitution, Con is now your prime stat. Basically one feat gives you +1.5 surges and +3 hp per tier. Not too crazy, but a no-brainer for Knights that weren't going to multiclass and use Melee Training to avoid MAD. (Knights will multiclass extremely well, that's good.)

A Battlemind, or a PHB Fighter that's fine with using hammers can do almost as well (since Con is their primary/secondary), of course.

 

[AbdulAlhazred]

I agree that the concept of having flexible stat use for all attacks via a feat has some coolness to it. It would in general be pretty rough on a lot of assumptions that the game makes right now though.

Personally I figure either Melee Training will somehow get forbidden or there will just be some way that the class encourages you not to switch your attacks to another stat.

 

[Hellzon]

Double post

 

[AbdulAlhazred]

AbdulAlhazred schooled me in another thread. If you take Melee Training: Constitution, Con is now your prime stat. Basically one feat gives you +1,5 surges and +3 hp per tier. Not too crazy, but a no-brainer for Knights that weren't going to multiclass and use Melee Training to avoid MAD. (Knights will multiclass extremely well, that's good.)

A Battlemind, or a PHB Fighter that's fine with using hammers can do almost as well (since Con is their primary/secondary), of course.

Yeah, using Melee Training plus one of the hammer styles and then the paragon hammer feats, starting with a 20 CON (heck, why not, you can still have high enough STR for other feats and probably for riders, especially as a STR/CON race). It probably isn't 'broken' but it could be a pretty optimized build depending on how the rest of the class looks. Then figure you can basically make your most potent attack even as an OA and as it stands now we know no reason you couldn't drop a BUNCH of the encounter powers onto one attack. At higher levels you might well be able to make one massive deadly strike with any granted attack. hehe. Oh, and then there's the Master's Blade...

 

[UngeheuerLich]

Hammer feats still need a decent amount of strength, +1,5 surges, +3 hp looks about equal to toughness/durable, so no problem i guess... still there should be some cool stances that key off strength explicitely!

 

[FireLance]

AbdulAlhazred schooled me in another thread. If you take Melee Training: Constitution, Con is now your prime stat. Basically one feat gives you +1.5 surges and +3 hp per tier. Not too crazy, but a no-brainer for Knights that weren't going to multiclass and use Melee Training to avoid MAD. (Knights will multiclass extremely well, that's good.)

Oh, I see the advantages. I just don't think the advantages are unbalanced. Of course, YMMV.

 

[Stalker0]

The knight has an encounter power, it's just a free action, can be announced after a hit and is rather dull.

Bonus damage isn't always dull. Sometimes you want to do cool effects, some times you just want to knock the crap out of something.

 

[RHGreen]

All fighters do now is 'I swing my sword.' It's just a massive list of 'I swing my sword', but with 4000 magic gathering style cards.

Each 'I swing my sword' has an add-on:

Move them a bit.
You move a bit more.
Add more damage.
Hit more than one target.
Cause a condition.
Ongoing damage.

Why do we need 4000 powers that all do the same thing. Essentials Knight is the way I thought they were going to do it in the first place - and then found they had filled a book with the same thing over and over and over.

Just because one power is called "Kick your arse across the street" and another is called "Up your arse, now your flying" doesn't make a power different. It's just taking up 20 times the amount of space it needs to. Choosing between the two has no tactical value other than one is lower level than the other and moves them a bit less. Choose between a moving power or not a moving power is not a choice of what my character can do. It is me choosing what my character cannot do. That isn't fun player choice.


Hopefully essentials is fixing this bloat.

(Another post more or less said this also. Rogue: Make their basic attacks use dexterity and target relfex and you're covering half their power list.)