Jasperak
Adventurer
No, UA for AD&D1e was OPTIONAL. It wasn't built into the system.
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NOW LIVE! Into the Woods--new character species, eerie monsters, and haunting villains to populate the woodlands of your D&D games.
First review of the new Red Box
- Thread starter AllisterH
- Start date
No, UA for AD&D1e was OPTIONAL. It wasn't built into the system.
Stormonu
NeoGrognard
Yeah, that was the one thing that was disappointing about the set. Cardstock covers would have just been awesome. I may have to see about printing a set to "recover" the one I have on order.
I really like the return of the "Choose-Your-Own-Adventure" introduction. I wonder if Bargle makes a cameo?
JoeGKushner
Adventurer
And yet it was an official supplement and allowed at thousands of game tables eh? And even if it was optional, it resulted in... yup, stat inflation in an official product.
RangerWickett
Legend
Jasperak, I think it's just a different philosophy in game design. 4e is built with the assumptions:
a) every player character should easily be able to contribute equally in the adventure.
Random stats mean that if the party has two fighters, one will outshine the other. Players can choose to use their point buy to design a lower-statted character if they want, but the game makes it easy to keep the party balanced.
b) every player character is exceptional compared to the common person.
Players generally want their rogue to have a high Dex, though they probably still have a dinky Str. Since the rules make getting high stats in one or two abilities easy and important, I think it makes characters feel more distinctive. Your nimble rogue with his 18 Dex is a lot swifter than the fighter with Dex 10; compare this to average 1e, where random rolling might get you a fighter who's nimbler than your thief.
Players generally want to feel special, and feel effective, and these rules make that easy. That doesn't mean that it's the right style of play -- there's definitely an appeal to getting stuck with a 11 Intelligence and playing an incompetent wizard -- but it's the style that WotC figures is most marketable.
It's all perception in the end, really. I mean, if you want to play 4e and say that your rogue is actually a fat old man who survives all his fights because he's lucky, not because he's fast, you can give him a crappy Dex. Hell, you can give him an 18 Dex in order to have a balanced character, but still roleplay and describe him as a withered old dude. All that matters is that you enjoy your character, and that the group has fun together.
If common high stats ruins your fun, then hey, no worries. The world would be boring if everyone liked the same things.
a) every player character should easily be able to contribute equally in the adventure.
Random stats mean that if the party has two fighters, one will outshine the other. Players can choose to use their point buy to design a lower-statted character if they want, but the game makes it easy to keep the party balanced.
b) every player character is exceptional compared to the common person.
Players generally want their rogue to have a high Dex, though they probably still have a dinky Str. Since the rules make getting high stats in one or two abilities easy and important, I think it makes characters feel more distinctive. Your nimble rogue with his 18 Dex is a lot swifter than the fighter with Dex 10; compare this to average 1e, where random rolling might get you a fighter who's nimbler than your thief.
Players generally want to feel special, and feel effective, and these rules make that easy. That doesn't mean that it's the right style of play -- there's definitely an appeal to getting stuck with a 11 Intelligence and playing an incompetent wizard -- but it's the style that WotC figures is most marketable.
It's all perception in the end, really. I mean, if you want to play 4e and say that your rogue is actually a fat old man who survives all his fights because he's lucky, not because he's fast, you can give him a crappy Dex. Hell, you can give him an 18 Dex in order to have a balanced character, but still roleplay and describe him as a withered old dude. All that matters is that you enjoy your character, and that the group has fun together.
If common high stats ruins your fun, then hey, no worries. The world would be boring if everyone liked the same things.
Keefe the Thief
Hero
Can we please fork the stat inflation discussion to another thread? That´s nothing which comes out of the new box, but from 4e in general.
And to the comment upthread that it wasn´t a "review" because the got an advance copy: good reviewers who do this a lot get advance copies. Thats how it works. They don´t call it one, but they could´ve done one even while Wotc gave it to them. All my reviews for Xzine were made with advance copies from the manufacturers.
Now, let ME wax nostalgic for a time: the Dark Eye introductory boxes were beasts from hell. Created by a company that had no experience with RPGS (who had, in the 80s?), they were remodelled boardgame boxes. They had these plastic inlays that should hold dice and pencils, which were as thin as the stuff you get to eat in church on sundays. Touch it, and it would break. No: splinter. It made this screechy sound when moved around the box, and if someone in your household smoked, they would go yellow in no time.
The rulebooks were made out of "sturdy paper", that is the paper you´d expect prisoners in a gulag have to create by hand out of wood pulp. If you had imagination, you could act like you were reading an old tome of magic secrets. If you had a brain, though, you couldn´t help thinking that they printed this on the paper they found in some forgotten corner of one of their warehouses.
And did i mention the metal stuff that held the books together which started to rust after 2 months? Boy, that feeling when you accidentially moved your hand over it and it felt like somebody was clawing off your skin...
Ah, good times.
And to the comment upthread that it wasn´t a "review" because the got an advance copy: good reviewers who do this a lot get advance copies. Thats how it works. They don´t call it one, but they could´ve done one even while Wotc gave it to them. All my reviews for Xzine were made with advance copies from the manufacturers.
Now, let ME wax nostalgic for a time: the Dark Eye introductory boxes were beasts from hell. Created by a company that had no experience with RPGS (who had, in the 80s?), they were remodelled boardgame boxes. They had these plastic inlays that should hold dice and pencils, which were as thin as the stuff you get to eat in church on sundays. Touch it, and it would break. No: splinter. It made this screechy sound when moved around the box, and if someone in your household smoked, they would go yellow in no time.
The rulebooks were made out of "sturdy paper", that is the paper you´d expect prisoners in a gulag have to create by hand out of wood pulp. If you had imagination, you could act like you were reading an old tome of magic secrets. If you had a brain, though, you couldn´t help thinking that they printed this on the paper they found in some forgotten corner of one of their warehouses.
And did i mention the metal stuff that held the books together which started to rust after 2 months? Boy, that feeling when you accidentially moved your hand over it and it felt like somebody was clawing off your skin...
Ah, good times.
Maggan
Writer for CY_BORG, Forbidden Lands and Dragonbane
Nope.
Great. Go check out the rule books. You will find that they are sturdier than what is shown in this video.
They won't bend the way they do in the video unless the covers are thinner paper.
The paper in the Essentials box also seems more glossy and to my eye they seem to be of a thinner stock than the rather bulky paper used in the Mentzer Red Box Basic Set. This is not a definitive observation, but that's what it looks like to me.
Note that this is just an off-hand observation*, and not a verdict on the quality of the game. It seems really cool to me.
/M
*Papermaking featured prominently in my university education so paper quality is something I tend to pay attention to.
Maggan
Writer for CY_BORG, Forbidden Lands and Dragonbane
I'm not claiming that a person has to be an old school gamer to think something is old school.
I hope this clarifies my comment.
/M
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Yes at the start of the video they say they first met to play 3.5.
Then later they say we've been playing for 4 years (and maybe a day).
I don't really think they know what old school is by "our" definition and I'm throwing a wide net out for "our" definition of old school.
However, it is clear to me the box is not meant for anyone at ENworld except perhaps somebody wanting to buy it as a gift hoping to create new gamers.
Then later they say we've been playing for 4 years (and maybe a day).
I don't really think they know what old school is by "our" definition and I'm throwing a wide net out for "our" definition of old school.
However, it is clear to me the box is not meant for anyone at ENworld except perhaps somebody wanting to buy it as a gift hoping to create new gamers.
Maggan
Writer for CY_BORG, Forbidden Lands and Dragonbane
When I listened to them talking about the earlier Red Box set, I almost thought I could hear the muted sobs of grognards and old school gamers all over the internet.
/M
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