Converting Al-Qadim creatures

[freyar]

Well, in game-world logic, it would make sense for a save boost if the opponent is in magical darkness and a DC reduction if the al-jahar is in the darkness, but that's pretty unwieldy.

I don't really mind whichever you folks decide, but another thing to consider that might be simpler is that bewitching lights just doesn't function if either al-jahar or victim is within a magic darkness effect of some level or higher.

 

[Cleon]

Well, in game-world logic, it would make sense for a save boost if the opponent is in magical darkness and a DC reduction if the al-jahar is in the darkness, but that's pretty unwieldy.

I don't really mind whichever you folks decide, but another thing to consider that might be simpler is that bewitching lights just doesn't function if either al-jahar or victim is within a magic darkness effect of some level or higher.

Well what level would be appropriate? Its bewitching lights mimics a 2nd level (blindness), 4th level (rainbow pattern) and 5th level (dominate person) spells.

I'd go for 3rd+ level Darkness spells, so it takes a blacklight or armour of darkness to block it?

 

[Number 6]

Well, in game-world logic, it would make sense for a save boost if the opponent is in magical darkness and a DC reduction if the al-jahar is in the darkness, but that's pretty unwieldy.

Unwieldy or not, it might be important for a crew that actually can cast one of the darkness spells on the al-Jahar and another on the intended victim... granting a +2 bonus to the victim's save and reducing the al-Jahar's Save DC by 2.

Not only that, but reducing the al-Jahar's DC by 2 benefits all intended victims... the +2 save bonus only benefits those victims in the effected area of one of the darkness spells.


I hasten to add that I'm merely saying this for the sake of the discussion... while I tend to favor the bonuses/DC penalty option, I'm certainly not going to die on a hill for it.

 

[Cleon]

Unwieldy or not, it might be important for a crew that actually can cast one of the darkness spells on the al-Jahar and another on the intended victim... granting a +2 bonus to the victim's save and reducing the al-Jahar's Save DC by 2.

Not only that, but reducing the al-Jahar's DC by 2 benefits all intended victims... the +2 save bonus only benefits those victims in the effected area of one of the darkness spells.

Weren't we discussing giving it a save bonus OR a DC lowering, not both?

I would rather not have it stack like that.

I hasten to add that I'm merely saying this for the sake of the discussion... while I tend to favor the bonuses/DC penalty option, I'm certainly not going to die on a hill for it.

I'm starting to feel having it blocked by Darkness spells of 3rd level or higher is my preferred solution.

e.g.

"Bewitching lights is opposed by magical darkness. An al-jahar's bewitching lights in ineffective if the al-jahar or its opponent is under the effects of spell with the Darkness descriptor that is 3rd level or higher, such as blacklight or armour of darkness."

 

[Number 6]

Weren't we discussing giving it a save bonus OR a DC lowering, not both?

I'm sure you were... that's why I added the idea.

 

[Cleon]

I'm sure you were... that's why I added the idea.

Well I fear I'm not enamoured of the idea of the idea, mainly because the two save-adjustments would stack since they're modifying different stats. It also seems needlessly complex.

Not that I mind needless complexity, but there's a time and a place for everything!

Do you have a preference among save-bonus, DC-penalty or Darkness spell level limit?

 

[freyar]

Well I fear I'm not enamoured of the idea of the idea, mainly because the two save-adjustments would stack since they're modifying different stats. It also seems needlessly complex.

Where is the real Cleon, and what have you done with him?



I think I'd go with 3rd level darkness spells.

 

[Cleon]

Where is the real Cleon, and what have you done with him?

I've been feeling a lot better since I visited the planet of the Brain Slugs.

They're so tasty those Brain Slugs, why don't you try one...

I think I'd go with 3rd level darkness spells.

Like this?

Bewitching Light (Su): An al-jahar in its natural form can blind, dominate and fascinate opponents with its light. It can perform each of these functions once per day, with the same effects as the spells blindness/deafness (blinding only, Fort DC 19), dominate person (Will DC 19) and rainbow pattern (Will DC 19). The save DCs are Charisma-based and include a +2 racial bonus.

Bewitching lights is opposed by magical darkness. An al-jahar's bewitching lights is ineffective if the al-jahar or its opponent is under the effects of a 3rd level or higher spell with the Darkness descriptor, such as blacklight or armour of darkness.

 

[Number 6]

Well I fear I'm not enamoured of the idea of the idea, mainly because the two save-adjustments would stack since they're modifying different stats.

But surely that's a feature... not a bug.

Do you have a preference among save-bonus, DC-penalty or Darkness spell level limit?

After thinking about it some more, your recent idea seems the best of the bunch... block it entirely by darkness spells. It makes the most sense and it is unambiguous.

 

[Shade]

I like the latest solution.

Updated.