Power-Swap Feats - taking multiple times

[Istar]

My Rogue will M/C Avenger.
And I was thinking of taking the "Acolyte Power" feat twice, to swap 2 of my Rogue utility powers to Avenger utilities.

Now under power swap feats it does not say that you are restricted to taking only one.

But under "Choosing Feats" in the PHB it is not clear.
It says "Generally, you cant take the same feat more than once, and most of the time you wouldnt want to".
This I assume is due to feats bonus's not stacking.

It does say that some feats specify you can take them multiple times.

I am focused on the word, "Generally...".

It doesnt seem to say I cant take this feat twice, but that generally its not a good idea.

As taking Acolyte Power twice gives you another utility from a differetn class, and not the same one.
As what you get from this feat is non specific.

And you are giving up something by taking the feat, a feat slot as well as your class utility power.

I would see this in the same class as skill powers, where you could take a couple of the "Skill Power Feats" and trade a feat for a skill power.

 

[eamon]

Generally (as in: unless specified otherwise) you may not pick the same feat twice. That includes multiclass power-swap feats.

But speak with your DM - I don't think it's actually problematic or overpowered, so it's an obvious option to permit despite the general restriction.

The general restriction does really matter for some feats such as Hybrid Talent.

 

[eamon]

I just noticed you mentioned that you can take a couple of "skill power" feats - I'm sorry to say, you cannot take that feat several times either. You may take it just once, and thus pick up only one skill power in addition to those you chose as utility powers.

 

[fba827]

What eamon said is correct:

The word "Generally ..." is there because some feats explicitly say that you can take them more than once. If a feat does not say it can be taken more than once (such as power swap feats or the skill power feat) then you can not take it multiple times.


(As a counter-example, refer to a feat like "Skill Training" which does say it can be taken multiple times, with the condition that you choose different skills each time)

Specifically regarding skill powers: it is possible to get more skill powers (by giving up your class utility powers), but that's NOT with the feat. The feat can only be taken once.

Having said that, if your DM decides to house rule that it can be taken more than once, than that's another matter entirely.

 

[Istar]

You think they would have said something under multiclass feats if they wanted to restrict you to being able to just do one.

It doesnt really over power a character, but gives a few more options.

 

[twilsemail]

MC feats are a sub-set of Feats. If there's a rule that applies to the broad group, it applies to the smaller group as well. This is how the exception based system works.

If your doctor tells you that you're deathly allergic to nuts, would you go eat almonds becuase he didn't tell you not to?

If your doctor tells you that you're deathly allergic to nuts but almonds are AOK, then you can eat almonds.

 

[the Jester]

You think they would have said something under multiclass feats if they wanted to restrict you to being able to just do one.

It doesnt really over power a character, but gives a few more options.

If they had wanted to allow a pc to take more than one they would have said so.

The general rule is, "You can only take a feat once." If something is an exception, it will call itself out quite clearly.

If you want to be more "half-and-half multiclassed," hybrid is the way to go.

 

[shmoo2]

If your doctor tells you that you're deathly allergic to nuts, would you go eat peanuts becuase he didn't tell you not to?

If your doctor tells you that you're deathly allergic to nuts but peanuts are AOK, then you can eat peanuts.

Except that a peanut is actually a pea (i.e. a legume) and not a nut.

 

[MrMyth]

You think they would have said something under multiclass feats if they wanted to restrict you to being able to just do one.

It's a rule for all feats that any given feat can only be taken once, unless it says otherwise.

The rule is there mainly to prevent any possible abuses. I'm relatively certain that if you think it will be fine for your character, you can discuss it with the DM and might be able to work something out.

 

[AbdulAlhazred]

I doubt taking multiple of a power swap feat would cause any problems. Chances are if you want to do that many swaps you'd be better off as a hybrid, but that's a whole other discussion.

The reason Skill Power is not allowed to be taken multiple times is it plain old GRANTS you a power, it isn't a swap. It gives you a nice ability to take a skill power without giving up a really nice utility, once, but taking it 2-3 times would be giving you a LOT more than the normal number of utility powers, which seems potentially unbalanced, and not really needed for just customization.