To be fair to the OP, there are places in the rules where some things that are implied based on the 'use the general rule unless explicitly stated otherwise' still explicitly state the general rule applies. It is not hard to read through the book and start to question if the lack of a seemingly redundant statement actually is meant to imply an exception.
Power-Swap Feats - taking multiple times
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Klaus
First Post
You got it backwards. Every feat can only be taken once. The exceptions have this line:
"Special: You can take this feat more than once"
... and then proceed to tell you what happens ("it's effects don't stack", "choose a different weapon", etc).
Dice4Hire
First Post
RAW, you cannot take the multiclass swap feats more than once.
But as a houserule, I would not have a lot of problems with it, except I might restrict bards a bit mroe, as they could potentially cheery pick multiple classes. But as for a rogue taking avenger utilities, I don't se a major problem, as it is only every 6 levels or so and it is costing he characer a feat slot each time. Maybe the new utility is that much better it is worth a feat, but that feat is still being spent on the swap, and not gaining anything else.
And I know with my characters, there are always lots of feats I want to take.
But as a houserule, I would not have a lot of problems with it, except I might restrict bards a bit mroe, as they could potentially cheery pick multiple classes. But as for a rogue taking avenger utilities, I don't se a major problem, as it is only every 6 levels or so and it is costing he characer a feat slot each time. Maybe the new utility is that much better it is worth a feat, but that feat is still being spent on the swap, and not gaining anything else.
And I know with my characters, there are always lots of feats I want to take.
I think common sense should prevail.
The reason the dont want you taking the "same" feat twice, is as they say, you wouldnt want to, as feat bonus's dont stack.
But they want to make sure you dont take something thats +2 and take it again to have +4.
But by taking a power swap feat again, to take a different power, your not taking the feat to get the same thing twice.
Surely common sense prevails in this game ?
The reason the dont want you taking the "same" feat twice, is as they say, you wouldnt want to, as feat bonus's dont stack.
But they want to make sure you dont take something thats +2 and take it again to have +4.
But by taking a power swap feat again, to take a different power, your not taking the feat to get the same thing twice.
Surely common sense prevails in this game ?
Pickles JG
First Post
The rules prevail in this game common sense, whatever that is, has nothing to do with it.
(DMs can change the rules as they see fit such as here where there is no game breaking issue)
eamon
Explorer
Right, so talk to your DM - if your sense of the case is held commonly, he'll agree and everything 'll be just peachy.
Several people have said it sounds OK in general, but we don't know the specifics and aren't your DM - so that's about as good an endorsement you can expect... right?
twilsemail
First Post
If common sense prevails in your game, that's awesome. Talk to your DM and see what he thinks about it. If you're looking for a general rules call, you've gotten it. You can only ever take a feat once, unless that feat explicitly says otherwise.
They wouldn't stack so this isn't a worry. Feat Bonuses don't stack with Feat Bonuses and untyped bonuses from feats don't stack with like bonuses.
Edit: That said, talk to your DM and see how they feel about whatever you're trying to pull. If you have their blessing... well, rules be damned, fun is important as well.
Dr_Ruminahui
First Post
If DM is considering house ruling it so that one can take the utility swap feat more than once, one thing to keep in mind is that some utilities can be a lot more powerful if available to a different class.
For example, in my group we have a tactical warlord who has multiclassed into wizard. For his utility swap power he took Fire Shield, which basically means that for one encounter per day, any enemy that hits him with a melee attack takes a decent amount of fire damage.
That particular utility is quite a lot more powerful for a melee character than a wizard... and I imagine there are other utilities that are also more powerful if taken by a different class.
For example, in my group we have a tactical warlord who has multiclassed into wizard. For his utility swap power he took Fire Shield, which basically means that for one encounter per day, any enemy that hits him with a melee attack takes a decent amount of fire damage.
That particular utility is quite a lot more powerful for a melee character than a wizard... and I imagine there are other utilities that are also more powerful if taken by a different class.
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