D&D 4E Played Dark Sun 4E Last Night

[tylermalan]

So, my group and I played our first game of Dark Sun 4E last night. We spent a LOT of time on character creation and then started up the level 1 adventure in the back of the Dark Sun Campaign Guide. Our DM was a new DM (but not new to D&D) and did a good job. He also purchased the Marauders of the Dune Sea Dark Sun adventure, but that starts at level 2.

All-in-all, I like the setting and the book. I like the new flavor stuff, but some stuff I don't like. People have mentioned the discrepancy with gold pieces. I don't really like the fact that almost zero mechanics are changed - all the races and classes are exactly the same, with the exception of a single new build for 4 different classes (only one of which is psionic). I really like the addition of the themes, and hope that they release material with more of them. We also did the wild talent thing, which is pretty cool, but has some downsides.

We had a good time and I would be happy to answer any questions that people have now that I've actually played it (though I haven't played it too much). Anyone else have any questions or want to share their experience?

 

[Dedekind]

All-in-all, I like the setting and the book. I don't really like the fact that almost zero mechanics are changed - all the races and classes are exactly the same, with the exception of a single new build for 4 different classes (only one of which is psionic).

What races/classes were you guys playing? Did everybody feel the same way?

 

[Dice4Hire]

Well, I think Athas is more different for what is out (divine and races) and what is changed (some classes, and the feel) Four new builds and two new races is quite good. Add in good feat support for those races and the weapons of the setting and I am very happy with the crunch. It does seem a bit odd they took the battlemind over the psion, but YMMV.

Of course the themes are wonderful also.

My group started at 3rd level a few days ago, and though we did not follow any official adventures, it was a good start. Hopefully it will end at 30th, or at least that is the plan.

 

[tylermalan]

What races/classes were you guys playing? Did everybody feel the same way?

I'm playing a Tiefling Warlock (Star Pact), and we also have two Humans, one of which is a Shaman and the other is a Paladin, and the last player is some Human-like race from Forgotten Realms I think, and he's playing a Psion.

I'm not sure if everyone felt exactly the same, but I think pretty close. We all went into it expecting major changes, and then found out that we can just use the PHB to make our characters and don't need the Dark Sun book at all (mostly). They changed the flavor of a few races but not all of them, and seem to at least suggest a prohibition of many of them (in many cases, this is just because they simply don't mention them). Each race that they discuss has two new backgrounds to choose from.

The 4 new builds are spread out between the power sources - each of the characters for which there is a new build is from a different power source.

Well, I think Athas is more different for what is out (divine and races) and what is changed (some classes, and the feel) Four new builds and two new races is quite good. Add in good feat support for those races and the weapons of the setting and I am very happy with the crunch. It does seem a bit odd they took the battlemind over the psion, but YMMV.

Of course the themes are wonderful also.

My group started at 3rd level a few days ago, and though we did not follow any official adventures, it was a good start. Hopefully it will end at 30th, or at least that is the plan.

Yeah, the new feats are alright and there are a few new weapons. It's just that our group had a kind of "moment" when we realized that the Paladin CAN wear plate mail that functions exactly like regular plate mail, only it is made out of bone or something instead of metal. I agree about the Battlemind choice.

One thing that we noticed, though, is that when you consider Psionic Power, the Psion has the capability to do many of the Wild Talents that are available. Maybe they just didn't want to overdo it.

We were just uninspired with the crunch because there isn't a lot of it, I guess. The races are the same. The classes are the same. The equipment is the same. There are some NEW things in those categories, but the old stuff isn't so different mechanically.

 

[Gloomshroud]

A lot of people have been talking about the "lack of options." I disagree. Dark Sun is a campaign SETTING. It provides the SETTING. New character options are great, but the meat and potatoes is the SETTING information. Dark Sun, to me, is not the character options, but the harsh Athasian world in which your characters play, not the 45 new powers, 370 new race/class combos, or the 67 new magic items you were hoping to get.

The "mechanical" differences of Dark Sun are obvious. Wild psionics, weapon breakage, and defiling. These were all handled simply and well, IMHO. The KISS method works better, because, again, all of these mechanics exist SOLELY to portray the setting.

I will side with players on one point, however. 2nd Ed. allowed for clerical healing. This is MUCH more limited. An elemental priest in 2nd was still a priest, not just a primordial dude. Granted, only the WATER priests could heal, per se, but the option was there... I also am aware that 4E allows for many different healing options, but I'm a purist/traditionalist. I like healers.

 

[tylermalan]

A lot of people have been talking about the "lack of options." I disagree. Dark Sun is a campaign SETTING. It provides the SETTING. New character options are great, but the meat and potatoes is the SETTING information. Dark Sun, to me, is not the character options, but the harsh Athasian world in which your characters play, not the 45 new powers, 370 new race/class combos, or the 67 new magic items you were hoping to get.

The "mechanical" differences of Dark Sun are obvious. Wild psionics, weapon breakage, and defiling. These were all handled simply and well, IMHO. The KISS method works better, because, again, all of these mechanics exist SOLELY to portray the setting.

I will side with players on one point, however. 2nd Ed. allowed for clerical healing. This is MUCH more limited. An elemental priest in 2nd was still a priest, not just a primordial dude. Granted, only the WATER priests could heal, per se, but the option was there... I also am aware that 4E allows for many different healing options, but I'm a purist/traditionalist. I like healers.

I guess I can understand what you mean. It just seems... I don't know, off to me. Elves are so different from a flavor perspective, but they still get the same ability modifiers? The same racial power?

 

[Nork]

I'm playing a Tiefling Warlock (Star Pact), and we also have two Humans, one of which is a Shaman and the other is a Paladin, and the last player is some Human-like race from Forgotten Realms I think, and he's playing a Psion.

I'll admit I'm about to be a wee bit of a grump, but based on the line-up of character options selected, I'm not sure you guys are giving the setting a fair shake.

Who the players are plays a big part in making Athas, well, Athas. If you play the same characters you play in a Tolkien like world, then it is going to largely end up as a Tolkien like world.

Playing a game that has paladins in platemail, and races from other settings is going to be 'just another D&D game with some sand'. Playing a game where you've got a player with a "gangbanger" elf from a city state slum who will slit someone's throat for a couple bits, doesn't plan for the future, and lives a lifestyle that will end up with them being dead or enslaved sooner than later, well, that game will feel different. Especially since every NPC in the setting is going to expect the elf to act that way.

 

[tylermalan]

I'll admit I'm about to be a wee bit of a grump, but based on the line-up of character options selected, I'm not sure you guys are giving the setting a fair shake.

Who the players are plays a big part in making Athas, well, Athas. If you play the same characters you play in a Tolkien like world, then it is going to largely end up as a Tolkien like world.

Playing a game that has paladins in platemail, and races from other settings is going to be 'just another D&D game with some sand'. Playing a game where you've got a player with a "gangbanger" elf from a city state slum who will slit someone's throat for a couple bits, doesn't plan for the future, and lives a lifestyle that will end up with them being dead or enslaved sooner than later, well, that game will feel different. Especially since every NPC in the setting is going to expect the elf to act that way.

You may be right. Although, it seems to me that our group composition seems fine with the exception of the paladin in terms of how it fits with the setting. You don't think so? The race that I think might be from Forgotten Realms might not be. I think it's called Kalashtar? But Tieflings and Humans are specifically detailed in the Setting book.

Edit: And actually, so are the Kalashtar or whatever. They don't get a huge block like humans, but they are mentioned whereas races like gnomes and devas aren't.

 

[Larni]

Playing a paladin, a teifling, and a kalashar would be (to my mind) the worst way to experience Dark Sun from scratch.

The above can be shoe horned in, but they will dilute the Athasian flavour massively. The above could be found in pretty much any world; far better to use thoroughly Athasian tropes.

As said up thread, you'll just end up playing Forgotten Realms in the desert.

 

[tylermalan]

I never played Dark Sun prior to 4E, so I don't know what the archetypes are for the setting. Tieflings get some love in the 4E setting book, at least. What are the things we should be playing?