Always with the killing

[Clarabell]

This has been bugging me for years not. It seems every game is focused around one thing: killing things. Every RPG that I can think either revolves around war and killing, or at least involves killing. In D&D its pretty much the same way. Always going around killing monsters and stuff and stealing their loot. Most fantasy books are the same way. It usually revolves around a war.

I’m just curious what your thoughts are on this. As I began to notice this, I thought, I'll build a campaign where they don't have to do that. Still give them the option if they want, but the story can be done doing skill checks, building things. Something other than just combat. Tried it many times now and it always ends up in them killing stuff. They'll just walk down a street and stab hobo's or something.

 

[Aus_Snow]

Hm. Just sounds to me like you haven't found the right RPGs (or books, for that matter).

Plenty out there!

 

[billd91]

RPGs may seem to focus on killing (or combat) because that's usually an area of the rules that requires a lot of detail to make a fair game. That's not necessarily the game focusing on or embracing killing as much as it's a reflection of what a game system needs a lot of detail on.

 

[Plane Sailing]

Most novels revolve around conflict of some kind, most RPGs similarly so.

Fighting and war are the most traditional forms of conflict, so they gather the most attention. Some RPGs can be run without that at all though.

Some examples that spring to mind are Blue Rose, which is designed for Romantic Fantasy Blue Rose: The Roleplaying Game of Romantic Fantasy from Green Ronin Publishing

or various horror games where the object is to resolve a situation (and if you get into any fighting, it is probably the other guys doing the killing!) such as Call of Cthulhu Call of Cthulhu (role-playing game) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia, or the wonderful Dread Review of Dread - RPGnet

Also, games like Heroquest HeroQuest (role-playing game) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia have a very broadly based system for handling any kind of conflict, and relationships are key to many of them; it should be straightforward to run a game which doesn't revolve around killing things and stealing.

Cheers

 

[S'mon]

Guys like killing things! Certainly Saxons, Celts and related north-west Europeans like killing things, and from what I see in eg Anime it seems common in other cultures too. Modern RPGs grew out of wargames, that's a big reason why they were so successful. Less violent RPGs, such as RPGs targetted at girls, have not been so successful, at most they are niche products.

The result IME is that the majority of gamer girls are from the minority of females who do like killing things, further reinforcing this as a central trope.

It's possible to play RPGs where combat is rare. "Rare" in RPG terms tends to mean "more like a detective novel than an action movie", though - ie by most standards there is still loads of violence, it's just 0-2 (1d3-1) times per game session rather than 4-6 (1d3+3)!

Even D&D works fine for something more akin to "A Wizard of Earthsea" though, where combat is a possibility but rare - just don't try to use it for "Bridget Jones' diary".

Finally, do establish player expectations and make sure you're all on the same page. Make clear that your game will be one with rare combat. Reduce or eliminate XP rewards for combat. Ramp up rewards for your desired activity, and you'll see more of it.

 

[S'mon]

Also, games like Heroquest HeroQuest (role-playing game) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia have a very broadly based system for handling any kind of conflict, and relationships are key to many of them; it should be straightforward to run a game which doesn't revolve around killing things and stealing.

Heroquest is notable as a game with no dedicated combat mechanic. Or to put it another way, combat in Heroquest sucks! If you want a very low-combat game, one where the players have no motivation to seek combat, something like that might be worth trying.

Edit: Although Heroquest seems very complicated to me and I hate the extended challenge resolution rules. You could get a good result by taking a skill-based or attribute-based game, remove the dedicated combat mechanics (ie remove the big "Combat" chapter) and resolve combat via a simple skill check, same as the other tasks in the game.

 

[frankthedm]

Not much a game without conflict and any conflict can turn violent in a game where a player has the freedom to choose the action they take.

Ever look into Changeling: The Dreaming - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia ?
Changeling: The Dreaming - Television Tropes & Idioms

Still has combat, but most of the character types sounded like their goals focused much less on combat.

Edit: How many in your group want a low violence game?

 

[Doug McCrae]

The recent thread Bloodthirsty PCs covers a related topic.

I think it's the system, expectations and the game world setup making the players violent. In the real world, most people aren't violent because they like it, they are violent because they think it will get results. It will achieve their ends faster and better than any other means.

To get them to stop being violent, one the best methods would be to stop letting it work. Essentially, every time the PCs start a fight, they lose. However this could cause a lot of friction if the players have already been 'trained' to think otherwise.

The reasons, in D&D, are imo:
1) Extensive rules for combat, making it seem like an expected activity.
2) It's all, or mostly, what the PCs are good at.
3) XP for killing.
4) Violence works. The PCs kill something and they get everything they want - xp, gold and magic items.
5) Lawless setting, like the Old West.

Change some, or all, of these factors, as Call of Cthulhu does and one will see less violence.

 

[Doug McCrae]

Most novels revolve around conflict of some kind, most RPGs similarly so.

I've seen an analysis that plays/theatre revolve around conflict whereas novels focus on exploration of character.

 

[Aldarc]

This has been bugging me for years not. It seems every game is focused around one thing: killing things. Every RPG that I can think either revolves around war and killing, or at least involves killing. In D&D its pretty much the same way. Always going around killing monsters and stuff and stealing their loot. Most fantasy books are the same way. It usually revolves around a war.

I’m just curious what your thoughts are on this. As I began to notice this, I thought, I'll build a campaign where they don't have to do that. Still give them the option if they want, but the story can be done doing skill checks, building things. Something other than just combat. Tried it many times now and it always ends up in them killing stuff. They'll just walk down a street and stab hobo's or something.

I do agree that killing and combat happen in some fantasy campaigns more often than hand shakes, so I am glad that you are being thoughtful about this matter. Blue Rose & True20, as mentioned, are good places to start looking for a system that supports a more fluid playstyle with less focus on combat.

In terms of designing the campaign, I would recommend looking at the effects of killing someone. What sort of repercussions or punishments would the individual or party faced if they just killed someone? Arrest? Trial before a court or magistrate? The emphasis could also be on intrigue, politics, investigating or other matters that would require the party to handle everything delicately. Dungeons and ancient ruins may be mostly abandoned, but protected by traps and obstacles requiring puzzle-solving and ingenuity. Or you could stack the odds so high that combat would be absolutely insane for the players. For example, the low-level party encounters a powerfully ancient dragon in a dungeon. They have no chance defeating the dragon in combat, so they try to smooth-talk their way out, find a way to sneak around the dragon, or wait for the dragon to leave to feed. Really it comes down to encouraging or giving your players better alternatives to combat. Sometimes players do not resolve on combat out of practicality but out of boredom.