Help me sort damage for Monsters in line with MM3

[Goonalan]

Warning spoilers for P1- do not read on if you intend playing this module.




We're in the midst of P1 King of the Trollhaunt warrens and my PCs are having too easier time of it, I've tried combining encounters which makes for titanic battles (and the players love them by the way) but we're looking for simpler solutions- like implementing the MM3 damage changes.

So I'd like some of you kind people to check my working out- help me get the damage settings right.

For the complete picture the PCs are-
Fighter 13 (Defences 27/25/21/21),
Wizard 13 (23/22/25/23),
Cleric 13 (25/22/20/25),
Warlord 12 (28/25/26/22) &
Rogue 13 (26/22/27/23),
they're not pimped in any way- they started life as the WOTC KOTS pregens,

None of my players come here (or any other D&D/RPG site so it's safe to talk), the encounters I need to alter are all of those in the Feywild section of the module, so I'll tell you what I think I should do and you critique (I don't want to fiddle with what's already in the book however ie change the combatants, just get the threat right)-

Oh and the PCs should be able to complete all of these encounters without needing an extended rest, and I promise I'll not combine any of them.

#1 C1: Cliffside Portal (3600XP Level 12)

3 Helmed Horrors (13 Soldier) & a Skill Challenge

Elemental Greatsword +20 vs AC 1d10+7 + 1d10 cold, fire, lightning or thunder
changes to-
Elemental Greatsword +20 vs AC 2d6+11 + 1d10 cold, fire, lightning or thunder

The HH have an encounter power that grants them two of the above attacks & Regen 5.


#2 C2: Outpost (4000XP Level 13)

Formorian Dark Initiate (13 Solo Controller)

MBA- Necrotic Staff +17 vs Ref 1d10+7 Necro & Push 1
changes to-
MBA- Necrotic Staff +17 vs Ref 2d6+11 Necro & Push 1

Black Flame Area Burst 1 within 10 +17 Ref 2d8+7 Fire & Necro
changes to-
Black Flame Area Burst 1 within 10 +17 Ref 3d6+7 Fire & Necro

Mind Wrack Close Blast 5 +15 Will 2d6+7 Psychic & Dazed
changes to-
Mind Wrack Close Blast 5 +15 Will 2d8+7 Psychic & Dazed

ENC Dark Step Close Burst 1 +17 vs Fort 1d10+7 Necro + Teleport
changes to-
ENC Dark Step Close Burst 1 +17 vs Fort 2d8+7 Necro + Teleport

The creature also a recharge 456 Double Spell- Black Flame & Mind Wrack power

High defences and 650HP- pretty sturdy to say the least.


#3 C3; Waterfall (4000XP Level 13)

2 Feymire Crocodiles (10 Elite Soldiers)

MBA Bite +17 vs AC 2d8+6 & Grabbed
changes to-
MBA Bite +17 vs AC 2d8+9 & Grabbed

Clamping Jaws (vs Grabbed target) +17 vs AC 3d8+6 Miss: Half
changes to-
Clamping Jaws (vs Grabbed target) +17 vs AC 3d8+9 Miss: Half

Also has a +15 vs Fort Swallow power

Regen 5 cancelled Fire

2 Quickling Zephyrs (14 Lurkers)

MBA Shortsword +19 vs AC 1d6+9
changes to
MBA Shortsword +19 vs AC 1d6+12

High defences again and +2d6 on CA.


#4 C4 Guardhouse (4500XP Level 13)

6 Cyclops Guards (14 Minions)

MBA Battleaxe +17 vs AC 7 damage
changes to-
MBA Battleaxe +17 vs AC 12 damage

They also have an IR if missed by melee attack- make an MBA.

3 Cyclops Impalers (14 Artillery)

MBA Spear +19 vs AC 1d10+6
changes to-
MBA Spear +19 vs AC 2d6+9

RBA Spear +19 vs AC 1d10+6
changes to-
RBA Spear +19 vs AC 2d6+9

Impaling Shot (Recharge 6) 2 attacks +19 vs AC 2d6+6 + ongoing 5
changes to-
Impaling Shot (Recharge 6) 2 attacks +19 vs AC 2d8+7 + ongoing 5

Evil Eye power +2 bonus to Ranged

Again good defences.


#5 C5 Entrance Cavern (4000XP Level 13)

Ghost Troll Devourer (13 Lurker) Insubstantial although cancelled if Acid/Fire/Radiant

MBA Spirit Bite +18 vs Fort 1d8+5 + ongoing 5 Necro
changes to-
MBA Spirit Bite +18 vs Fort 2d6+11 + ongoing 5 Necro

Entrapping Jaws (Recharge 56 & when bloody opponent) +20 vs AC 2d6+7 + Restrained & +2 to all Defences
changes to-
Entrapping Jaws (Recharge 56 & when bloody opponent) +20 vs AC 3d6+11 + Restrained & +2 to all Defences

2 Ghost Troll Renders (13 Brute) Insubstantial although cancelled if Acid/Fire/Radiant

MBA Spirit Claws +15 vs Reflex 2d10+7
changes to-
MBA Spirit Claws +15 vs Reflex 2d10+14

ENC Terror Strike +14 vs Will 3d6+3 Psychic + Slowed- Fail save Unconscious (Save ends)
changes to-
ENC Terror Strike +14 vs Will 5d6+6 Psychic + Slowed- Fail save Unconscious (Save ends)

These boys have 121 HP each (and Insubstantial)

Displacer Beast Packlord (13 Elite Skirmisher)

MBA Tentacle +18 vs AC 2d6+7
changes to
MBA Tentacle +18 vs AC 2d6+11

Bite +18 vs AC 3d6+7
changes to
Bite +18 vs AC 3d6+11

Beast's Fury with CA make 2xTentacle + Bite same target- NASTY.

Displacement 50% all attacks miss, until one hits- recharge if move 2.

Threatening Reach 3

Superior Shifting- on Miss because of Displacement (FREE ACTION not Immediate Interrupt or Reaction)- Packlord makes MBA and Shifts 1

I take it FREE means I can do this as many times PCs are still missing due to Displacement- this could be nasty too if that's the case.

Good defences and 258 HP.


#6 Cauldron Chamber- the finale (7000XP Level 16)

4 Ghost Troll Devourers (as above)

Stone Cauldron (14 Controller)

Attack +16 vs Will 6d6 Psychic + Pushed 3 Miss- roll attack again for next nearest PC
stays the same.

Only way to stop it is to destroy it which requires Vard's (see below) magical eye to be thrown in the cauldron.

Vard (16 Elite Brute)

MBA Claw +19 vs AC 3d8+7
changes to-
MBA Claw +19 vs AC 3d8+14

Frenzied strike (FREE)- bloody target make a MBA

Propelling Swipe (Close Blast 2) +17 vs Ref 3d8+7 + Push 2 + Prone
stays the same.

Necrotic Blood IR Vard takes damage- target takes ongoing 10 Necro

Baleful Eye (Minor) +19 vs Will Slowed & no Teleport

ENC Smoldering Eye Close Blast 5 +19 vs Reflex 2d10+7 Fire +10 ongoing Fire & -2 To Hit
changes to
ENC Smoldering Eye Close Blast 5 +19 vs Reflex 4d6+12 Fire +10 ongoing Fire & -2 To Hit

If cauldron is still intact when Vard dies (which is going to be the case approx. 100% of the time- unless the PCs somehow wrench his eye out and work out they need to throw it in the cauldron- unlikely) then Vard gest back up with bloodied hit points although he can no longer use Baleful or Smoldering Eye (you'd have thought he would have already used Smoldering Eye).

Good defences and 348 HP- Regen 10 cancelled with Fire/Acid

I've tried to use the table found on page 4 of the errata (Dungeons & Dragons Roleplaying Game Official Home Page - Article (Official D&D Updates)) but... well what do you think, I think the To Hits should stay the same but this is my first time messing with damage- any clues?

 

[caudor]

Hmmm...what? I'm confused.

The damage for monsters in P1 are incorrect? I searched around for errata for P1 and didn't find it. I would think this info would be in the errata already. If I do find it I'll point you to it.

Does this rule change in MM3 impact all of the adventures released prior to MM3?

Hopefully, someone can fully answer your question. I wonder if this change part of Essentials or new errata for the existing 4e?

 

[renau1g]

The new monster damage expersions are for all monsters pre-MM3 as well:

http://www.wizards.com/dnd/files/UpdateJuly2010.pdf

Page 4

 

[CovertOps]

The short version if you're using AT is to edit copies of the monsters you're changing. Every attack has several properties you can adjust.

• Type: Normal (-), Limited(+75%), and None(0)
• Dice Sides: 4, 6, 8, 10, 12
• Modifier: Low (-25%), Medium (-), High (+25%)
• Average Damage

Any monster you want to update just edit a copy and make the following changes:

Most attacks are of Type Normal. Recharge and Encounter powers are the ones that are usually "Limited"
Modifier: Should be Medium
Average Damage: Should be L + 8 This increments by .5 so be careful or just type your number.

As a sample I edited the Helmed Horror elemental greatsword by changing the "Modifier" from "Low" to "Medium" and it gave me average damage of 16 (L + 8 = 21 - 5.5 [damage from the d10 elemental damage] = 16) and an expression of 2d10 + 5 + 1d10.

 

[surfarcher]

That's a longer process than strictly necessary.

Check out http://www.enworld.org/forum/4e-dis...lay-1-turn-d-d-4th-edition-2.html#post5312847. Still good advice tho.

 

[Aegeri]

I am happy to help, I'll give you suggestions using the full new rules where appropriate. I won't go through your entire post line by line though.

Elemental Greatsword +20 vs AC 1d10+7 + 1d10 cold, fire, lightning or thunder
changes to-
Elemental Greatsword +20 vs AC 2d6+11 + 1d10 cold, fire, lightning or thunder

I would agree with this, make them +18 though - soldiers no longer gain a +2 bonus to attacks over the norm.

So 2d6+11 +1d10 cold, fire, lightning or thunder damage.

Formorian Dark Initiate (13 Solo Controller)

High defences and 650HP- pretty sturdy to say the least.

I think your damage increase looks to be fine there.

You should though decrease the 650 HP it has by 20% (to reflect the new solo maths).

It should also have the following defenses:

AC 27; Fortitude 25, Reflex 24, Will 24

Which also reflect the new change to the way things work with MM3. As long as you haven't been having a lot of problems with people locking down solos or similar it should be okay without further modification.
#3 C3; Waterfall (4000XP Level 13)

2 Feymire Crocodiles (10 Elite Soldiers)

Decrease attack bonuses by 2.

2 Quickling Zephyrs (14 Lurkers)

MBA Shortsword +19 vs AC 1d6+9
changes to
MBA Shortsword +19 vs AC 1d6+12

High defences again and +2d6 on CA.

That feels like too little damage for a lurker, especially as much of its damage is conditional. 2d6+12 is a bit better for this monster and reflects its role far better.

3 Cyclops Impalers (14 Artillery)

RBA Spear +19 vs AC 1d10+6
changes to-
RBA Spear +19 vs AC 2d6+9

Impaling Shot (Recharge 6) 2 attacks +19 vs AC 2d6+6 + ongoing 5
changes to-
Impaling Shot (Recharge 6) 2 attacks +19 vs AC 2d8+7 + ongoing 5

These look decent and you can if you want boost the attack rolls of the ranged attacks to +20 or +21 (artillery get a bonus on ranged/area attacks).

Vard (16 Elite Brute)

MBA Claw +19 vs AC 3d8+7
changes to-
MBA Claw +19 vs AC 3d8+14

Vard is a brute, so he deserves to get more damage and you can upgrade his attack to +21 (Brutes are now +5 vs. AC, like most other monsters). You can triple his MBA damage, to 3d8+21 without an issue here. Especially because brutes are fairly easy to hit.

Also like solos, elites lost their bonuses to defenses:

AC 26; Fortitude 24, Reflex 23, Will 22

Should be his new defenses.

Frenzied strike (FREE)- bloody target make a MBA

Just remember he only gets this once per turn, even if he bloodies two PCs in that turn.

Propelling Swipe (Close Blast 2) +17 vs Ref 3d8+7 + Push 2 + Prone
stays the same.

I think that's reasonable for a area attack. Might want to up the damage just a bit. 3d8+10 sounds a bit better.

Necrotic Blood IR Vard takes damage- target takes ongoing 10 Necro

Fair enough.

Baleful Eye (Minor) +19 vs Will Slowed & no Teleport

This is the correct attack bonus actually.

ENC Smoldering Eye Close Blast 5 +19 vs Reflex 2d10+7 Fire +10 ongoing Fire & -2 To Hit
changes to
ENC Smoldering Eye Close Blast 5 +19 vs Reflex 4d6+12 Fire +10 ongoing Fire & -2 To Hit

I think this is fine.

Those are just my suggestions though, you can get away without lowering the HP or defenses of the solo (or the defenses of the elites). Remember that you can tone damage down on the fly (or up) if needed. It will take a while to get a feel for the new damage values and how it works out.

 

[Goonalan]

Using everything I can find from the errata, DMG2 et al the thread below are the re-stated monsters as previous (the second lot- starting with the Helmed Horror), have I made any foolish errors, anything need fixing?

http://www.enworld.org/forum/4e-dis...-guide-re-speccing-monsters-line-mm3-etc.html