Metaplots - it wasn't just TSR that did them

[Wik]

"I would never play it" is a weird definition of "they worked" when it comes to a game, IMO.

Ha ha. Damn you for proving me wrong by using my words!

What I mean is, the game is still around today, and making decent money (or at least, I presume so as there is a fair amount of product in my game store, and it seems to be moving at an okay pace).

And I buy some of those products, because I love the basic idea. But everytime I read one of those products, my head starts to spin and I find myself saying "you know, I could probably play this, but there's no way in hell I'd GM it... and I seriously doubt half my group would really get into it."

So what I mean is, the game is still alive despite a metaplot that is rather heavy. And then I just kind of segued into the fact that this metaplot is the primary reason I don't play the game.

Some stuff here reminds me that metaplot is frequently wedded to another bane of supplement design: Deliberately leaving out key information from your core rulebook (and thus leaving the GM in the dark regarding important tenets of the campaign setting) so that you can sell supplements.

One of the reasons we never bought any Earthdawn supplements was because, in the magic section, there was a line that basically read "this whole chapter of magic will be dealt with in this upcoming book...." which really bugged us. Never mind that D&D required THREE books to play compared to Earthdawn's ONE (plus this magic book for extras). It just felt "wrong" to us.

 

[Umbran]

Yes, but you'll notice I was also looking at OD&D and BD&D, which predate the release of 1E.

Yes. You seem to think I'm arguing against you or something. The timeline I present shows that D&D had approximately a decade (1974-1984) basically metaplot-free.

But, that also means that "D&D didn't have it originally" only holds strongly for folks playing before 1984. The later they started playing, the less true it'd be. I would expect folks who started playing in the 1990s or later to feel metaplot was a normal (though not necessary) thing found in gaming.

I don't think it's unreasonable to suppose that, even if 2E occured right before other game companies appeared, them becoming popular with metaplot settings influenced TSR to turn up the proverbial dial on metaplots of their own.

As I understand it, DL and FR were the two greatest economic successes in settings, and both had metaplot. The concept was already proven to sell books by 1989, and I'd have expected TSR to make liberal use of it even if the other companies had never existed.

 

[rogueattorney]

The issue I have is with "world shaking events" being added to campaign settings that are already out. And while I can't say it "ruined my game*," it has made me not buy any more game products for that setting. If the meteor never hit Glantri in my world, then the source book that details all the changes to Glantri since the meteor hit simply isn't very useful to me.

In the 2e days, there certainly seemed to be a cycle put together in which the campaign world is introduced, a short while later a number of adventures detail some sort of "world shaking event," and then the series of adventures would be followed by a new campaign world source book detailing the changes. The whole cycle was cynical and I wanted no part of it.

*I say that, but then recall quitting FR's Avatar series about half-way through. We all just sort of said, "This is b.s.," and went on to conquer a good portion of the Moonsea area. But I think that had more to do with how bad those adventures were than the campaign world changes that were occurring. We didn't stick with the series long enough to actually see those changes take place, and I certainly never purchased any post-ToT FR materials.

 

[Votan]

The metaplots in Traveller and Megatraveller, particularly as presented via the Traveller News Service, were a fun way to inject other setting events into the campaign and helped build a sense of a wider universe out there where things weren't just sitting pat until the PCs encountered them, but were actually happening.

What I liked about the Traveller meta-plot (or at least much of it) is that, in space, events can happen far away. The GM can decide how muich influence they have. Perhaps the Spinward marches is under a strong governer who is staying neutral in the succession crisis so the characters see little difference.

But, even better, it can spawn adventure seeds. Perhaps that treacherous Noble is trying to curry favor with one side or the other, hoping the she might become the new governer once the crisis is over. Or there could be supply or ship shortages (requiring a free trader to be hired by the government). Maybe local patrols are reduced and Space Pirates {TM} are on the rise. Or perhaps the characters will get involved in some small way . . .

Or maybe the character hear the odd news story and life goes on as normal.

[Plus, in Traveller, it is reasonable that a small band of mercenaries and traders are unlikely to single handedlty change the course of empires -- but they could have a huge influence on local conditions or specific battles]

This is different than "world shaking events" where it is impossible to be isolated. Everybody, in the Avatar Trilogy, is likely to notice when spells stop working in the Forgotten Realms -- it's not something that can be easily overlooked. Or the return of the first vampires and the complete fall of the mortal world, in V:tM, is difficult to spin as background flavor.

 

[M.L. Martin]

Metaplot has two basic forms: background plot development in successive supplements or novels, and major world-changes alongside edition-changes.

Actually, AFAIK, only two major metaplot events are connected to edition changes, both in the Forgotten Realms: The Time of Troubles and the Spellplague. The transition to 3E in FR seems to have been more subtle, and no other setting line got dramatically shaken up as part of an edition change--a case could be made for Die Vecna Die!, I suppose, but that was never followed up beyond taking Vecna and Kas out of Ravenloft. (Ravenloft's major change between 2nd and 3rd edition was the return of Azalin Rex, but that was actually slotted to be the capstone to the 2nd Edition era.)

Dragonlance? Dragonlance is an interesting situation. After Legends and the departure of Weis & Hickman from TSR, the setting pretty much settled into a holding pattern, waiting for their return. When they did, they did Dragons of Summer Flame--which was entirely their own idea, and not at all influenced by the game folks. Due to strong pre-sales of the novel, TSR gave the fans of the setting over in the game department the go-ahead to relaunch the game line, on the conditions that a) it be set after DoSF and b) it be a non-AD&D, diceless system. They launched the Fifth Age, but TSR went under shortly afterwards, and one of the first things WotC did when they bought TSR was to bring Weis & Hickman back and ask them to do something with the setting. Management also, as some of you may recall, went back and forth on DL as a 3rd Edition game line for some years, before the release of the 3.5 campaign setting and the licensed line by Sovereign Press/Margaret Weis Productions. (I think the long gestation of the War of Souls and the return to the 'holding pattern' mentality while it was in the works didn't help DL as a gameline in the interim.) One of the conditions of the license was that SP/MWP had to let the novels drive the setting, so it continues the pattern that, with the brief exceptions of DL1-4 and the Fifth Age game line, DL's metaplot has always been driven by the novels rather than the game.

 

[Umbran]

Actually, AFAIK, only two major metaplot events are connected to edition changes, both in the Forgotten Realms

If you look outside D&D, that doesn't hold true. The WoD certainly had major metaplot events at edition borders, especially for the release of the Revised editions, and finally the new WoD (for which, they destroyed the world - that's big metaplot motion!)

I think Shadowrun also tended to have major metaplot changes happen in conjunction with the edition changes - the edition changes happen to be at specific dates in the setting - but I think that wasn't so much to put the setting in line with new mechanics as it was to sell another round of supplements about the same basic material.

 

[eyebeams]

I think Shadowrun also tended to have major metaplot changes happen in conjunction with the edition changes - the edition changes happen to be at specific dates in the setting - but I think that wasn't so much to put the setting in line with new mechanics as it was to sell another round of supplements about the same basic material.

As someone who worked on an SR book I can tell you that supplements and precedents created by plots are way more influential in that game than they ever were in the old World of Darkness. Some of this is extremely subtle, such as precedents in technology. Others have to do with the uncertain state of crossover material from Earthdawn. Either way, it's very pervasive. That's not good or bad -- it's just how SR is.

All in all, changes in plot arcs tend to follow fan demand over what game designers want. All the assassins died in Faerun not *just* because uncool AD&D2 made it so, but because they were a widely despised class in 1e. In fact, most of the AD&D2 changes were themselves focused responses to 1e complaints at the time.

Mage Revised happened because the fans who preferred 2nd often didn't play the game, didn't buy much, and created a closed community that alienated new players. (I used to have a standard test to see if people played Mage to tell whether to take feedback seriously, because the core spellcasting system has a flaw that is obvious to anybody who uses it over time.) Line artist Chris Shy was given marching orders to "do something different because it's a failing line."

To a great extent, fans reap what they sow. There were better ways to do it in both cases, but the reality of time and pressure versus practical objectives led to something of a kludge. Still, I'm very happy with things such as how I ended Ascension, in the Giovanni Chronicles and other things that weave in and out of metaplot development.

But we sure as hell never decided the devil said Spider-Man had to get a divorce.

 

[Umbran]

Mage Revised happened because the fans who preferred 2nd often didn't play the game, didn't buy much, and created a closed community that alienated new players. (I used to have a standard test to see if people played Mage to tell whether to take feedback seriously, because the core spellcasting system has a flaw that is obvious to anybody who uses it over time.)

Aside: A flaw? A single one? I can think of several - leading it to be what I call both the best and the worst RPG I've ever played. I don't know about the community, as I played with my group, and didn't deal with WW's community as a whole. But sure as heck, that game required some high levels of trust between GM and players. I could easily see the closed-community as a result of the rules - letting folks you didn't know well into your game was risky.

To a great extent, fans reap what they sow.

Quite. However, it is very difficult to make that clear to players, especially the ones who are not the majority, or the expected future customer base, on a given issue.

 

[eyebeams]

Aside: A flaw? A single one? I can think of several - leading it to be what I call both the best and the worst RPG I've ever played.

This one is straight up mechanical. From 2nd on, Mage: The Ascension's spelllcasting difficulty ratings make high ranking magic less powerful than low ranking magic. Psychokinesis with Forces 2 rules. It might (depending on victim's Sta and defenses) only be beat with direct Pattern attacks using Life or Entropy, and that isn't so important once you have the bashing/lethal divide by Revised. It gets *really* noticeable when you have one PC who can create black holes and another who does several times as much damage with an enhanced baseball bat.

I don't know about the community, as I played with my group, and didn't deal with WW's community as a whole. But sure as heck, that game required some high levels of trust between GM and players. I could easily see the closed-community as a result of the rules - letting folks you didn't know well into your game was risky.

What I'm talking about is endless, "Lo, what is the TRUE nature of the metaphysick?" conversations and very little about playing. Awakening's community is much more about playing the game and sharing tips and tricks, which is really nice to experience.

Quite. However, it is very difficult to make that clear to players, especially the ones who are not the majority, or the expected future customer base, on a given issue.

Like I said, both the Avatar Storm and Bhaal's sacrifice smack of 11th hour Hail Mary attempts that, like it or not, are part of making things that you'd like to ship in a timely fashion -- but keep in mind that metaplot is inherently ambitious, and requires a constant effort. I think reacting to the difficulty by abandoning it is a mistake. As I said, this is something RPG types do *really* well and it's sad to see the craft get forgotten. The worst metaplots are still a bit better than what Marvel or DC throws together with millions of dollars in creative talent.

 

[Bobbert]

Like I said, both the Avatar Storm and Bhaal's sacrifice smack of 11th hour Hail Mary attempts that, like it or not, are part of making things that you'd like to ship in a timely fashion -- but keep in mind that metaplot is inherently ambitious, and requires a constant effort.

Bhaal's sacrifice did bring us one really good thing: the Baldur's Gate games. Metaplot is generally a mixed bag in the RPG world, but when done right it's good for more than just the pen-and-paper roleplaying game.