5-foot step

[Altissimus]

You know what, I'm totally fed up of this. It's just so easy to jump in on the guy that everyone else is already having a go at, isn't it?

"Your interpretation" is that a 20x20ft creature should make a step at a speed four times faster than a creature taking up a 5x5ft square.

Yes, yes, my interpretation. Inspired by this from earlier in this thread:

"Many DMs (including me) I've seen house rule the five foot step on creature size. A Huge(tall) gets a 10 ft. step and I've even seen a 15 ft. step for Gargantuan."

It might make sense to argue that a 5ft step size should increase with base speed, but that's not what you're arguing for here.

Yes it is.


Ok, enough.

Fact is, there is NO perfect solution to this question. The situation at the moment isn't perfect (as some people have agreed with me). My solution may not be perfect either (and I never suggested it was, only that it works for me) but it will be used in my campaign.

To which none of you are invited.

I will not be tempted to post to this forum again. I'll simply read it from whichever ISP access isn't banned after today.

I find it unreal that people get this kind of reception because they have the nerve to suggest alternative rule discussion.

How much easier it is for you all to tear something down then suggest a positive change yourselves. It's pathetic.

Thank you to all of those who made positive comments and criticisms in the first half of this thread - you've helped a lot.

 

[irdeggman]

No, I'm not, because a "quick-moving creature" has a base speed of 30 or higher, doesn't it? See rule 6.

You definition of "quick moving" seems to based solely on having a greater "speed", which is actually a bad assumption.

"Quick-moving" should be a function of Dexterity since Dex modifies you initiative roll (how fast you can react), you reflex save (how well you can roll with an attack or get out of its way) and your armor class (how well you can dodge blows).

Large creatures get a penalty to Dex while small ones get a bonus.

What creature is actually "quicker" - a sprite or an ogre?

What creature can move a greater distance in a turn?

Different things.

 

[irdeggman]

I will not be tempted to post to this forum again. I'll simply read it from whichever ISP access isn't banned after today.

I find it unreal that people get this kind of reception because they have the nerve to suggest alternative rule discussion.

How much easier it is for you all to tear something down then suggest a positive change yourselves. It's pathetic.

Thank you to all of those who made positive comments and criticisms in the first half of this thread - you've helped a lot.

The problem is that you posted a house-rule on the rules forum (there is a separate subforum for house-rules).

Hence you got into a dissection of your house rule instead a of more (Not in accordance with the RAW) discussion you would have gotten on the house-rules side.

 

[green slime]

The real problem is, that there are too many people willing to leap in and be highly critical and non-constructive, without being considerate in the least. It doesn't really matter which forum you start a post in. At least it shouldn't.

 

[IronWolf]

The real problem is, that there are too many people willing to leap in and be highly critical and non-constructive, without being considerate in the least. It doesn't really matter which forum you start a post in. At least it shouldn't.

I think jrdeggman has what happened in this thread right on. The D&D Legacy forum pretty much answers everything by the RAW and that's what we use to gauge things and the light under which we look at things presented in this forum.

The House Rules forums is much more open to going over a house rule, possible shortcomings and possible improvements in a different manner. I tend to stay out of the house rules forum as I don't like to make large changes to the RAW and resist most attempts to do so. You will meet much less resistance and likely garner more constructive feedback when soliciting comments on a house rule in a sub-forum with like minded people than trying to do so that use the RAW filter when replying to posts.

If it didn't matter what forum we posted in the forums wouldn't be separated out. Just like I shouldn't be surprised if I head to the 4e forum extolling the virtues of 3.x or Pathfinder and meeting a large amount of resistance.

I bet if Altissimus posted his house rule for 5' steps in the House Rule forum he would get a much different reaction.

 

[green slime]

I think jrdeggman has what happened in this thread right on. The D&D Legacy forum pretty much answers everything by the RAW and that's what we use to gauge things and the light under which we look at things presented in this forum.

The House Rules forums is much more open to going over a house rule, possible shortcomings and possible improvements in a different manner. I tend to stay out of the house rules forum as I don't like to make large changes to the RAW and resist most attempts to do so. You will meet much less resistance and likely garner more constructive feedback when soliciting comments on a house rule in a sub-forum with like minded people than trying to do so that use the RAW filter when replying to posts.

If it didn't matter what forum we posted in the forums wouldn't be separated out. Just like I shouldn't be surprised if I head to the 4e forum extolling the virtues of 3.x or Pathfinder and meeting a large amount of resistance.

I bet if Altissimus posted his house rule for 5' steps in the House Rule forum he would get a much different reaction.

Right, but that shouldn't mean that it is good form to leap in and crap on people's posts. RAW or not. Many, many threads start as inquiring about RAW, and end up discussing potential house rules.

 

[Umbran]

Well, now several of you seemed to have forgotten the Rules, even though I posted a link to them up-thread.

To wit: Don't discuss moderation in-thread. This has turned into a classic example of why we ask that. Next time, if someone seems to have questions about moderation, please remind them that they should speak to a moderator about the problem.

How about we allow that sub-thread to die, and move on.

 

[Persiflage]

I will not be tempted to post to this forum again. I'll simply read it from whichever ISP access isn't banned after today.

WHOAH! OK, I wasn't expecting all this when I got back...

I was going to post further on the subject, but you know what? It's not worth it. Making a point isn't worth it. I had no intention of upsetting anyone, and certainly not to the extent of provoking such a reaction, because rules discussion about a game just isn't worth upsetting someone I've never met and putting them off participating in ENWorld.

So: Altissimus, and ENWorld, I am sorry. I apologise unreservedly for posting in a manner which was obviously hurtful to the OP and detrimental to the good of ENWorld as a whole, and can only say that if my style tends to the overly-snarky, it isn't meant to. My posts are generally constructed in fits and starts in-between the events of a working day, sent without much by way of proof-reading, and it's clear that I failed to give adequate consideration to the feelings of the person on the receiving end.

I should have chosen my words more carefully, and I am sorry.

Altissimus, I hope you'll reconsider joining us on a regular basis; ENWorld is a rewarding community to participate in and the give-and-take - from people like you who share their ideas, as well as those who take them to bits (deconstruct them, as Desert Gled pointed out) and put them into the context of the wider game - is what makes it worthwhile. I didn't intend what I wrote to be construed as a personal attack; I aimed for the rules, not the person, and as I obviously went wide of the mark, I am sorry.

 

[Piscivorous]

There are many good and bad things about 5-foot stepping, but I think overall it's a win. Keep in mind, I'm guaranteeing missing a few tricks....

Some benefits:

• Can't be used in conjunction with movement. You either move or do a 5-foot step. This is important, otherwise such maneuvers like Spring Attack or Tumble become less useful if every one can do it.
• Allows PCs a bit of a respite to do other things than hack and slash.
• Allows for a more open movement without sacrificing a full-round action. This becomes important to set up flanking, move out of the way so another PC can get into position, etc.
• Allows spellcasters an opportunity to cast spells without getting thwacked. This is most important for casting heal spells

So how to counteract it?:

• Reach weapons are the best way [I have a fighter who likes to get down and dirty with his Glaive and Shorthaft feat].
• Quickened Slide spell. A mage with a few of these on hand can help his meat shields make quick work of an enemy if they decide to cast a spell without defensive casting and all of a sudden have a barbarian in their face.