Neat GM advice on Female Gamers:

[Dausuul]

Patronizing? Wow, now this response came as a complete surprise to me. Yes I do alter my behavior according to the people around. If I'm with women, I tend not to talk about certain things such as what was the best Mortal Kombat. If I'm playing with religious people, I tend not to talk about religion. If I'm playing with politically active people, I tend not to talk about politics. If I'm playing with a person with dyed hair, I don't talk about how artificial dyeing looks like in my opinion.

Spot the difference here.

Religious people --> careful what you say about religion.
Politically active people --> careful what you say about politics.
Dyed hair --> careful what you say about dyed hair.
Women --> careful what you say about Mortal Kombat?!?

I wouldn't geek out about video games in a conversation with a random stranger until I'd ascertained that they were interested in that type of video game. That goes for men and women both. But if they are interested--game on! Lots of women love video games. Ditto sports cars.

 

[Jon_Dahl]

Spot the difference here.

Religious people --> careful what you say about religion.
Politically active people --> careful what you say about politics.
Dyed hair --> careful what you say about dyed hair.
Women --> careful what you say about Mortal Kombat?!?

I wouldn't geek out about video games in a conversation with a random stranger until I'd ascertained that they were interested in that type of video game. That goes for men and women both. But if they are interested--game on! Lots of women love video games. Ditto sports cars.

Of course it's different if they are interested about video games or sports cars. I'm just saying that as a default I wouldn't start to talk about them first.

What I'm really trying hard to say here is that I do behave differently with different people because I try to get along with people and for crying out loud it's not about being patronizing... You know people learn from experience, right? So far I've never met a woman who is interested about Mortal Kombat or sports cars, thus I wouldn't bring them up first. Of course if we could get a nice conversation about them it would be different.

My whole point in the first post was that according my goddamn experience I wouldn't start talking AK-47's and car-mechanics in a group that has female-gamers, because in AVERAGE they MIGHT feel that the game is boring and not going anywhere. If you feel that my comment insulted you or it was ill-adviced then please accept my deepest apologies. I'm talking about my own experience. If you are not satisfied with that, then I'm sad.

 

[Wik]

As a man, I just find it pretty embarrassing seeing this type of thread and especially entire paragraphs written just to give advice to men about playing D&D with women. Isn't there even a Slayer's Guide to Female Gamers or something?

Actually, Oryan, I'm with you on this. Everytime I see one of these threads pop up on ENWorld, the advice I wind up giving is pretty much exactly what Mr. Tweet gave. And Mr. Tweet gave that advice when I was ten years old.

This thread is more about how little things have really changed in that regard. And that, more than anything else, bugs me. Because when this was originally written, people were still listening to MC Hammer, Vanilla Ice, and the New Kids on the Block.

I'd like to think we'd made at least some progress since then.

Come on guys. Why does this topic always come up? Are women really that foreign to you that you actually need advice on how to play a game with them? The only RPG advice we need about dealing with women is advice about roleplaying in the bedroom with them. That's it.

Not so sure about this bit. The fact that there are a lot of threads of this manner that pop up make me think that not everyone is as comfortable with this subject as you or I. There are, unfortunately, people with anxiety around women. Or people that are not used to being in a non-dating atmosphere with women.

Ruling those people out entirely because we believe it should not be so seems like the wrong course to take. And obviously, based on this article's publication date, it was a problem in 1993 at least as much as it's a problem in 2010.

I agree that it shouldn't be a problem, but for some people, it is.

I actually had a GM that treated one of my female players on an entirely different level - changed his attitude, his presentation of NPCs, and how he arranged his plots. We suddenly found that there was less combat and more role-playing... even though our female player happens to be one of those bloodthirsty wenches.

It all kind of sucked.

Also, regarding role-playing in the bedroom... in all my past relationships, it's been banned. This may be entirely my fault, as the second it is mentioned, I inevitably say something like "Can I be a half-elven paladin?" before getting pummelled by the girlfriend in question.

True story.

Shouldn't that just be good advice regardless of it being a male or female player? I don't understand the need for distinction when it comes to female players.

Agreed.

 

[Oryan77]

What type of thread are you talking about? The OP, or at least the quoted section, agrees completely with you. That there is no specialized advice for dealing with female players.

Quite often (or maybe it seems often) we have threads that single out the experience of playing with female gamers. I understand that the point of this thread is in agreement with my own opinion, that it doesn't make a difference if it's a woman. But the fact that it even needs to be said to some people is weird to me.

A lot of people start gaming in their teenage years. Advice on dealing with the opposite sex is probably always going to be a good thing for teenagers.

Yes, if by "dealing with" you mean dating the opposite sex. But we're talking about playing a game. I was as awkward as any other guy around girls as a teenager when it came to dating. But we're not giving dating advice to anyone. We're giving gaming advice, about something very odd.

I never needed advice on how to act when I shot pool with girls as a teenager. Or how I needed to act when I'd play Monopoly with a girl. Why is it any different playing D&D? Because it's a roleplaying game? It actually needs to be said that "girl rpg gamers are no different than male rpg gamers...there can be hack-n-slashers and roleplayers just the same"? Duh! The advice would be the same regardless of it being a male or female. Look at the player and cater to what they enjoy out of D&D. That's it.

Now if a teenager has sexual or emotional feelings towards a gamer girl, then by all means, ask for advice. But I don't think even a teenager needs advice on how to act around a girl that he's playing a game with. It just makes you look weird. Girls aren't going around making threads asking for advice on how to act when playing D&D with men.

Of course it's different if they are interested about video games or sports cars. I'm just saying that as a default I wouldn't start to talk about them first.

I think what people are trying to say is that it doesn't matter if it's necessarily a "female" that you are talking to. I don't just start talking about video games to just anyone, including men. I'm sure you also wouldn't since you seem to recognize who you should & shouldn't talk to about certain things. You probably know whether or not the guy you're talking to wants to hear about Mortal Kombat. It's just part of being good at socializing. It has nothing to do with it being a woman or not.

 

[Umbran]

This thread is more about how little things have really changed in that regard. And that, more than anything else, bugs me. Because when this was originally written, people were still listening to MC Hammer, Vanilla Ice, and the New Kids on the Block.

I'd like to think we'd made at least some progress since then.

That the subject comes up does not imply a lack of progress.

To a large extent, gender roles in human society do seem to be learned things, right? If you want women to be treated with respect, every individual needs to be taught that lesson. So long as babies are born, the message will need to be repeated. Forever. This is how it is taught, and maintained.

And, honestly, it isn't like humans have gotten gender-equality solidly worked out in the past 10,000 years or so. Why should it have changed so massively since the 1980s?

 

[Oryan77]

Ruling those people out entirely because we believe it should not be so seems like the wrong course to take.

I agree that it shouldn't be a problem, but for some people, it is.

I understand that there are people that get nervous being around girls. But when it comes to gaming with one, I just don't have sympathy towards a guy that is gonna freak out about sitting next to a girl at the table.

I won't go into this though. I don't want to come off like a pompous jerk (oh, too late). My opinion towards this type of issue is much more than just a guy gaming with a girl. It's more about guys needing to man-up and stop acting stupid. I mean, my brother referred to his wife recently as "the boss". What the hell ever happened to being the 'man of the house'? It goes hand-in-hand with things like guys being so overly sensitive about topics discussed on the boards & needing to be babysat by moderators. I'm sure the gamer girls are saying to themselves that there isn't enough gamer men in the hobby.

Also, regarding role-playing in the bedroom... in all my past relationships, it's been banned. This may be entirely my fault, as the second it is mentioned, I inevitably say something like "Can I be a half-elven paladin?" before getting pummelled by the girlfriend in question.

That's pretty funny. I can't really get into the whole roleplaying behind doors thing (oddly enough, I'm sure my wife would like it). But I never thought about how creative a gamer might be if he/she was to do that. I may really be wasting my true talents!

 

[Diamond Cross]

It's weird. Females love to role play their sexual fantasies.

But they don't like RPGs.

 

[Cor_Malek]

It's weird. Females love to role play their sexual fantasies.

They do a what now?

I can't say I've read any studies on that, but from casual POV, pretty much all RP stuff at sex shops is for men. I mean, unless it's the other way around, and people have fantasies to have sex as a maid or police officer, not with them. Have I been missing out on something?

But they don't like RPGs.

Correction: "But they don't play as much as men".

 

[Umbran]

It's weird. Females love to role play their sexual fantasies.

Folks,

As if folks didn't figure this out for themselves, let me be clear: making broad generalizations about what an entire gender likes is at the least very close to sexism, if not over the line.

Given that, and the fact that what folks like in the bedroom is not really on-topic for this thread, and that EN World's supposed to be family-friendly, I'm going to ask folks to leave the bedroom out of the discussion, please.

 

[nedjer]

It's more about guys needing to man-up and stop acting stupid. I mean, my brother referred to his wife recently as "the boss". What the hell ever happened to being the 'man of the house'? It goes hand-in-hand with things like guys being so overly sensitive about topics discussed on the boards & needing to be babysat by moderators. I'm sure the gamer girls are saying to themselves that there isn't enough gamer men in the hobby.

Dude - you are a Triceratops