Letting Players Narrate in the Game?

[LostSoul]

Typically, is that all a player has to worry about, making decisions and expressing their individual characters? My experience is it's common to make character decisions for reasons external to the in-game fiction, ie real-world social reasons, to make another player happy.

I don't know any way to say this without using some Forge language.

So: That's why Creative Agenda drives through the entire Big Model. It affects every layer of it. Authorship and Advocacy are techniques that can be used to further any Creative Agenda, but you can't just say any one will work in any game - you need to look at how the game works, its Currency especially, in order to make sure it's going to work for your Creative Agenda.

 

[karlindel]

It depends on the game and the players. Personally, I like for the players to do some narration in any game (i.e. describing the effects of their powers, describing character actions, etc.), and to set up some world elements (i.e. detail some NPCs related to their characters). In most games, I also encourage adding in small elements rather than spending time asking about it (i.e. feel free to pull the rug out from under enemies rather than ask me if there's a rug you can pull out from under them).

With respect to world background elements, I tend to give players mostly free reign as it relates to their characters. If they are the only dwarven party member, they are welcome to detail dwarven culture as they like as long as I haven't already detailed something differently with plans to use it.

I have wanted to run a campaign in which the players help create the world setting. I managed to get a group together for it once, and got as far as the players creating the races and general background, and putting together a brief adventure outline, but unfortunately people's schedules got very busy and we didn't manage to play. Still, it was fun to do collaborative world creation, and it's an experiment I want to try again sometime.

 

[The Shaman]

I advised that the next time one of us asks, "Are there any markings on the chest that might hint at its origins?" then he should reply, "Yes there are. Why don't you tell us about them?"

And I'd reply, "If I wanted to make up information about the markings, I'd be sitting where you are. I want to explore the world, not create it."

No interest whatsoever, as a player or referee.

 

[Hussar]

I think if someone wants to introduce this into a game, they've got a pretty serious uphill battle. RPG's traditionally have placed all of that authority in the hands of the GM and been pretty jealous about allowing the players to have any degree of authority over anything other than their own character.

There are some fantastic ideas here for how to start though. Small things like the "Rule of the Kill" or whatever it was called are great. Get the players used to the idea that they can actively participate in the creation of the shared story beyond simply reacting as a character.

Getting everyone at the table involved beyond just their character makes a better game IMO. I'm rather tired of players who show up, week after week, play their character and go home, never making any sort of contribution beyond that. I want the campaign to be our campaign, not mine.

I'd absolutely love the opportunity for a DM to just say, "Yes, there are markings. Why don't you tell us about them?" Not only does that engage me in the setting, but, it can almost be competitive between players as each one actively tries to bring something interesting to the campaign.

I much prefer proactive than reactive games.

 

[JoeGKushner]

And I'd reply, "If I wanted to make up information about the markings, I'd be sitting where you are. I want to explore the world, not create it."

No interest whatsoever, as a player or referee.

Ouch. Tough crowd.

What about your own character's background? What about any family heirlooms or history? What about relatives, brothers/sisters/etc...?

 

[Camelot]

And I'd reply, "If I wanted to make up information about the markings, I'd be sitting where you are. I want to explore the world, not create it."

No interest whatsoever, as a player or referee.

Sounds like you would rather be playing a video game. The great thing about tabletop RPGs is that everyone gets to contribute to the story. Not only can you dictate every action of your character, you can suggest ideas for the plot, make up cities and NPCs, and then change that world with your character.

If you don't want to create the world, then why not just play a character who's also already created for you on a plot all laid out before you in a straight line? And why not play that with awesome graphics and superfast math?

 

[Hussar]

Funny enough, now that I realize it, one of my players, in almost every D&D game we've played, has had a character that can cast Cantrip (either by spell or item or feat) or has had some sort of item that lets him pull random stuff out of it.

For pretty much exactly the reasons outlined here. He wants to have a little control over the narrative in the game. Cantrip is fantastic for that. Allows all sorts of minor effects that makes him very, very happy.

Hrm, I wonder if it would work just to write that into everyone's character - everyone can access cantrip X times per day.

 

[Hungry Like The Wolf]

I've been doing this with "inker" points in my comic-book game. The better you role-play the more beanies or inks you get and thus the more descriptive or narrative control you get.

I find it's a great way to further involve players, get them roleplaying more heavily and develop your ability to deal with curveballs.

 

[The Shaman]

What about your own character's background? What about any family heirlooms or history? What about relatives, brothers/sisters/etc...?

My character backgrounds tend to be sketchy, a quick summary of his situation and a couple of broadly drawn goals, and what background I do provide I fit to the referee's setting.

In Forge-y parlance, I prefer Develop-in-Play over Develop-at-Start. At the start of the game, I'm far less interested in who my character knows, where he's been, and what he's done than in who he'll meet, where he'll go, and what he's going to do, because all of that background is nothing more than something I scribbled on my character sheet as opposed to something I experience in actual play.

I don't want to write some sort of 'revenge plot' into my character's background; I want to avenge the death of my character's fellow adventurers last month, when they were killed by the baron's guards. I don't want to start with some mentor I created whole-cloth before the game began; I want to find a tutor and prove myself worthy of being his student during actual play. I don't want to start with a sword that's been in my family for generations; I want to pass on my character's sword and its legacy to my character's son or daughter, after my character has earned reknown with it over the course of the game we played.

I lost interest Star Wars the moment Darth Vader said, "I am your father." What was for me up to that instant a gripping adventure tale became a hackneyed soap opera.

This extends to how I prefer to engage the setting. I don't need adventure paths or narrative control to enjoy my character; just give me a world to explore and engage, to experience through my eyes of my character, and I'm good to go. I will change the world, but not by narrating it.

Sounds like you would rather be playing a video game. The great thing about tabletop RPGs is that everyone gets to contribute to the story. Not only can you dictate every action of your character, you can suggest ideas for the plot, make up cities and NPCs, and then change that world with your character.

If you don't want to create the world, then why not just play a character who's also already created for you on a plot all laid out before you in a straight line? And why not play that with awesome graphics and superfast math?

Welcome to my Ignore list.

Mod Edit: Please, by all means, if you feel using the ignore list will improve your experience of EN World, use it. But don't go announcing it to the world - that's pretty crass and rude. ~Umbran

 

[prosfilaes]

To break that mindset in my players, I had to introduce new books. By breaking that level of familiar comfort, I was able to shake up the mindset of passivity. First Warhammer and now FATE, specifically Spirit of the Century and the Dresden Files, have really encouraged the players to get involved, to define big portions of the world, and to find what is important to THEIR character.

Personally, I was thinking about Primetime Adventures, especially given that we always played GM-less. If you play something where the narration is explicitly part of the player responsibility of the game, it should help them feel more free to narrate in other games.

I actually had a new player spontaneously start making up a bunch of world things in a GURPS game once. I let it ride, and the game ended shortly after, but I think if it hadn't, I would have had to make sure everyone was on the same page.