Double Auto Crit?

[Xyrlove Woodsoul]

If my Warlord attacks with Warlord 13, Death from Two Sides, and then uses Helm of Heroes to grant his ally a Standard Action attack as a BA, and that ally uses Pit Fighter 11, All Bets Are Off, and both my Warlord and the ally hit, thus making my ally's hit an auto crit, then only the Primary attack of All Bets Are Off is a critical? Or is it the case, that if the Pit Fighter hits with the Secondary attack of All Bets Are Off, then it is also a critical? Double crit? Do Secondary attacks crit? Yes by RAW, correct?

 

[Joker]

What?

 

[DracoSuave]

Very interesting question.

There's two ways to interpret it.

1-

Assuming you hit... if the pitfighter's primary attack hit, that hit is a critical hit. If the secondary attack hit, that hit is a critical hit.

2-

Because the pit fighter is no longer making a basic attack, your power can no longer make it crit.


I'm personally torn between either interpretation.

 

[Shin Okada]

I too think it is a gray zone. But leaning toward Dracosurve's interpretation 2.

Helm of Heroes says,

Power (Daily): Free Action. Use this power when you grant an ally a basic attack. That ally can take a standard action instead

The ally "can take a standard action instead". This is different from, say "can use any one standard action power as a basic attack."

 

[Xyrlove Woodsoul]

Very interesting question.

There's two ways to interpret it.

1-

Assuming you hit... if the pitfighter's primary attack hit, that hit is a critical hit. If the secondary attack hit, that hit is a critical hit.

2-

Because the pit fighter is no longer making a basic attack, your power can no longer make it crit.


I'm personally torn between either interpretation.

I see what you are saying. I'm torn too, but I am leaning towards it not being a crit. Helm of Heroes is only a 10 level item too. Thanks.

 

[Saeviomagy]

In general it's a bad idea to have rules elements stack in a multiplicative way.

I'd say yes, you do get a crit out of it, but the crit is limited to a single attack roll/damage roll pair.

 

[DracoSuave]

I too think it is a gray zone. But leaning toward Dracosurve's interpretation 2.

Helm of Heroes says,



The ally "can take a standard action instead". This is different from, say "can use any one standard action power as a basic attack."

You've pretty much settled it for me as well.

Interpretation 2. The attack granted by the power no longer is happening, and therefore cannot hit.

 

[Xyrlove Woodsoul]

I too think it is a gray zone. But leaning toward Dracosurve's interpretation 2.

Helm of Heroes says,



The ally "can take a standard action instead". This is different from, say "can use any one standard action power as a basic attack."

Yes, that "instead," part "seals the deal" for me for it being a no go. Thanks for your help peoples.