Magic Stone/Sling and size category

[Drake M]

I'm considering giving a halfling bard a sling with Magic Stones (as per the spell/potion in the core books).

Would the fact of the sling/stones being smaller than those meant for a medium creature affect their damage? For a normal stone, i know they would, but being a magical effect, I'm not certain.

There's also a chance of throwing reduce person in there for the higher AC, attack rolls, dex, and other bonuses. Further shrinking the halfling and the stones.

As a side note, can several reduce person spells stack? What if they are made permanent via Permanency in between castings?


Thanks in advance,
Drake

 

[irdeggman]

As far as mutiple reduce persons stacking - see the last entry under the spell description

"Multiple magical effects that reduce size do not stack."

I think that even applies if permanent since it is still a magical effect that reduces size (i.e. a dispel magic makes the effect go away).

Good question about the magical stones.

It appears as if the spell "enhances" the normal sling bullet from 1d4 to 1d6+1 and actually made a medium sized pebble gor from 1d3 to 1d6+1.

So I would say it is a "magical effect" that causes the enchanted pebbles to do 1d6+1 damage (regardless of their size) - which means that a pebble sized for a large creature would still do 1d6+1 damage. The spell actually transmutes the pebbles into something different so it can be explained as such.

 

[jefgorbach]

sling with Enlarge ... insert mundane stone, victim hit by small boulder??

 

[Nebten]

sling with Enlarge ... insert mundane stone, victim hit by small boulder??

Not per Enlarge Person's description:

"Any enlarged item that leaves an enlarged creature’s possession including a projectile or thrown weapon) instantly returns to its normal size. This means that thrown weapons deal their normal damage, and projectiles deal damage based on the size of the weapon that fired them."

 

[Jhaelen]

Not per Enlarge Person's description:

"Any enlarged item that leaves an enlarged creature’s possession including a projectile or thrown weapon) instantly returns to its normal size. This means that thrown weapons deal their normal damage, and projectiles deal damage based on the size of the weapon that fired them."

But sling stones _are_ projectiles, so their damage depends on the size of the sling. The size of the projectiles is irrelevant.

 

[jefgorbach]

sorry forgot they nerfed it to only affect "persons".

Enlarging objects was fair game under the prior version and a semi-common practice when Arcane Lock / Hold Portal / etc wasn't viable (ie topple and enlarge a whatever to block a doorless archway).

 

[radmod]

Just to clarify Nebten's post because he accidentally left something out:

Melee and projectile weapons affected by this spell deal more damage. Other magical properties are not affected by this spell. Any enlarged item that leaves an enlarged creature’s possession (including a projectile or thrown weapon) instantly returns to its normal size. This means that thrown weapons deal their normal damage, and projectiles deal damage based on the size of the weapon that fired them.

So the last line was intended as a clarification of the difference between projectiles and thrown weapons. Really they should've said 'yet' instead of 'and'.

Likewise, for magical enhanced stones

Magical properties of enlarged items are not increased by this spell.

Yet, for magic stones (the spell)

You transmute as many as three pebbles, which can be no larger than sling bullets ... The user of the stones makes a normal ranged attack. Each stone that hits deals 1d6+1 points of damage (including the spell’s enhancement bonus), or 2d6+2 points against undead.

So if you had a magical property that was based on size, and enlarged the item first it would be based on the new size of the item (since the enlarge is not increasing the magic property), but if you applied the property and then enhanced, the property would not increase. However, by RAW a magic stone spell disregards size (a pebble or so), so a magic stone from a small sling does the same damage as one from a large sling (as would technically a gargantuan one).

As to the Permanency, that is DM's discretion. I say this because some DMs would allow it. Others, probably most, would say that Permanency isn't actually permanent since it can be dispelled, thus the effects of reducing wouldn't stack.