D&D 4E 4E is too balanced - options to replace all martial dailies?

[Frankie1969]

This fall I introduced my kids (and myself) to the new Red Box, and we're having a blast. So now I'm picking up the various 4E rulebooks. But as has been the case with me for over 3 decades, I see things I would do differently, and I make changes. Although I'm willing to postpone my usual complaints about the twin mistakes of AC & HP, it bothers me that 4E has too much balance between classes.

The addition of interesting martial feats is a really good idea (so much better than "I attack", "I attack", "I attack", "..."), but 4E goes too far. Why is this guy with an iron stick able to spin around and deal a meteor swarm of damage? And why is he only able to do it once a day? ("game balance" is not a valid answer)

I want to compress mundane abilities to more appropriate levels. Martial daily powers would be replaced by weaker but more frequent attack options, stances & permanent bonuses.

Has anyone out there built such a ruleset already? I'd rather not reinvent the wheel from scratch if I don't have to. Thanks in advance for any pointers.

 

[Rune]

It seems that what you're asking for is exactly what they've done for Essentials. I'd start there (well, with the Red Box, you already did, but...) and see how the martial classes work for you, particularly the Fighters (Knight or Slayer) and the Rogue (Thief). They're both in Heroes of the Fallen Lands.

 

[the Jester]

Dude. Essentials. Rune hit the nail on the head- that is exactly what WotC has done.

 

[Pistonrage]

Just some additional support for looking into essentials.

But I do have a fundamental problem with your OP.... Why is game balance not an acceptable answer?

Historically, primary cpellcasters have been obscenely weak at low levels and conversely OVERPOWERED at higher levels(low/mid levels depending on build).by standardizing the power scheme of all characters, it creates a needed balance, where fighters and barbarians are kings at levels 1-6, and after 6 Druids rapidly scale in offensive power(having class abilities stronger than a few classes), and after 9 primary spellcasters are basically gods.

Oh, and I believe the official explanation for why the martial characters have daily powers is that they are taking advantage of small exploits in a combat situation that rarely occur and they happen to have the right momentum and vigor to pull off a big attack.

 

[Frankie1969]

Thanks much for the info. I'll definitely pick up the Essentials books.

Historically, primary spellcasters have been obscenely weak at low levels and conversely OVERPOWERED at higher levels(low/mid levels depending on build).by standardizing the power scheme of all characters, it creates a needed balance

True. And back when I did 1E/2E, I rebuilt the spell system (mana-based) to give mages a more even casting progression. I like having balance.

I don't like 4E's artificial balance of giving "bomb" abilities to non-magical heroes. I agree that classes should have comparable DPS+Durability totals, but mundane attacks should have a much narrower range of variation than paranormal powers.

Oh, and I believe the official explanation for why the martial characters have daily powers is that they are taking advantage of small exploits in a combat situation that rarely occur and they happen to have the right momentum and vigor to pull off a big attack.

That might be a decent answer for encounter feats with complicated trigger criteria, but still doesn't cut it for dailies, IMO.

 

[RangerWickett]

Do you do much video gaming? You could try implementing a Street Fighter 3-esque 'Super Move' meter for martial characters. It takes a fighter a few rounds to really get his adrenaline going, so he earns, say, 1 groove point per round. At-wills cost no groove. Encounter powers can now be used as often as you like, but cost 1 groove point. Dailies can also be used whenever you want, but cost 3 groove points.

You might have to remove any daily powers that grant healing without the use of surges, or you could just make it clear that PCs can't string out a fight by running around for several rounds, just to build up spare groove so they can reuse healing abilities. You only get groove when you attack or take your second wind. Maybe when you're bloodied for the first time in an encounter, you get 1 bonus groove point.

 

[Camelot]

Do you do much video gaming? You could try implementing a Street Fighter 3-esque 'Super Move' meter for martial characters. It takes a fighter a few rounds to really get his adrenaline going, so he earns, say, 1 groove point per round. At-wills cost no groove. Encounter powers can now be used as often as you like, but cost 1 groove point. Dailies can also be used whenever you want, but cost 3 groove points.

You might have to remove any daily powers that grant healing without the use of surges, or you could just make it clear that PCs can't string out a fight by running around for several rounds, just to build up spare groove so they can reuse healing abilities. You only get groove when you attack or take your second wind. Maybe when you're bloodied for the first time in an encounter, you get 1 bonus groove point.

This sounds fun and balanced while still making sense in the game world. Instead of 1 point every round, though, make it 1 point every time you hit with an attack. That way, you can't just stand there "gaining adrenaline" or whatever before unleashing an awesome attack; you have to work to build up the energy. Also, maybe powers of higher levels should have higher costs? I can't figure out the balance off the top of my dome, but it sounds about right theoretically.

 

[Rune]

The groove point thing looks nifty, but, unless you want someone spamming their encounter power(s) every round after the first, you'd have to do something like make them cost 2 groove points per encounter power, 4 per daily.

This would work whether you automatically earned groove points each round or earned them through hitting.

 

[Tequila Sunrise]

There are no non-magical characters in 4e. "Martial" is just a misnomer used by those who don't realize that fighters are just as magical as wizards. Blade magic is simply less flashy than arcane magic.

 

[Frankie1969]

[MENTION=63]RangerWickett[/MENTION] I think your Groove Point idea is very cool. I would set it up more like planeswalker loyalty counters in MtG: basic moves add points, which can be spent to perform more powerful moves.

However, my players are just starting out, so adding a new layer to the rules isn't a good option for me right now.