Shintoesque D&D

[gamerprinter]

Japan has had more than plenty of conflict, historically, with sohei monks at war. Japan outlawed Shugendo for a time. As Buddhism was taking hold, families supporting the old Shinto way went to war with the Buddhist imperial families and lost.

So we're not talking "the World of Coke"...

 

[TwinBahamut]

Religious toleration and religious syncretism are not at all the same thing. Japanese religious syncretism was certainly in effect during major periods of religious persecution in that country, after all. Japan has had several major religious conflicts and disagreements throughout its history. It also has several religious sects that are separate from mainstream syncretism, as well a wide variety of cults that embody that syncretism in different ways while still remaining very distinct from each other.

I really don't know what "liberal social policies" even has to do with the subject... Trying to attach a word like "liberal" to something like this just doesn't work, and they certainly are not social policies being enacted by a government.

 

[Korgoth]

OK, gents! No politics please... this has been a good thread so far. And you guys probably don't want to hear about my politics, since I'm a smidge to the right of Francisco Franco.

I guess for what I'm envisioning, there wouldn't be any competition with monotheistic religions because there simply wouldn't be any. I'm a big proponent personally, but the point of this exercise is to come up with a world that is quite different from what we're usually given regarding the status of gods and monsters.

As I've refined my thinking about the world I'm personally working on for this (working title: Telluria... so original), I think that "gods" will be those spirits which are tied to a location (the grove, the funny-looking rock, etc.) and "demons" will be those spirits which are not tied to a location. So a "demon" may not necessarily be evil, but they're certainly not a welcome sight to the common folk. After all, such a creature will only bring change, and for most functioning agrarian communities that's the last thing you want.

Basically, spirits that are tied to a place tend to be predictable and even if they're cruel you can still learn how to live with them. But spirits that roam free, "off the tether" so to speak, are essentially loose cannons and there's no telling what they'll do. But they'll all be addressed as "Lord" or "Lady" and treated with great respect, because nobody wants to make them mad.

Except PCs of course, who I fully expect will be trying to kill gods and demons on a regular basis. For which I expect a mixture of successes and TPKs depending on the wisdom of the (as yet hypothetical) players.

 

[Starfox]

Further, there would be no need to distinguish between the entries in the Monster Manual / Vault and the spirits. Maybe the spirit of this blighted grove is an owlbear. It's from the spirit world (i.e. it has a non-natural 'ecology'), but for game purposes, it's an owlbear. Maybe it's twins! Or maybe it is mated to an otyugh. The spirit world doesn't play by the same rules, after all.

This is in many ways the most interesting aspects. The focus of spirit worship is often to placate the spirit, render it harmless and channel its powers to good/useful purposes. A good hero defeating an evil spirit would then go on to build a shrine to it, possibly instituting a cult, thus placating it and avoid having it reform as some other monster. This also proposes a lot of alternate methods of problem solving, where you investigate WHY the spirit is evil/troublesome and try to placate it without violence.

We have a variant of this in the west; it is the classic ghost story. The ghost has some unfulfilled obligation, and completing the ghost's task sends it on its way. In this setup, the spirit would instead turn benign when the proper actions have been found out and performed.

 

[Piratecat]

Just to be clear, folks, let's keep this thread focused on D&D-esque ideas and not real life interpretations of religion and politics. That way lies madness and cranky moderators. Thanks.

 

[gamerprinter]

My feudal Japan inspired horror setting, is just that 'Japan inspired' and it borrows heavily from animistic Shinto-esque aspects, as well as the Buddhist Hells, so while my setting is influenced by real world religions it is purely D&D. So I'm not talking actual religion, however, I am talking exactly as it will appear in Kaidan: a Japanese Ghost Story setting.

The Buddhist Hells feature prominently in the setting, and has been approved by a Buddhist senior priest (bishop rank).

It will be published for game use as described above.

GP

PS: in fact the founding of the setting is based on an actual historic event in Japan that occurred on April 24, 1185

 

[Shades of Green]

This could lead to VERY interesting directions, as it breaks out of the bonds of 'standard D&D' and allows you to play something cool and refreshingly new. It also makes the game feel more magical and the divine to be represented by real NPCs/monsters rather than just being the background of the divine spellcasters.

it also depends on how far you want to go with this - would, for example, Goblins be very minor spirits, the product of accursed ruins or unwholesome forests rather than biological creatures? That would make them more fantastic (and more similar to the Goblins of myth) and solve the whole "what do the goblins eat?" question - they are spirits, and follow the rules of the spiritworld, not of the mortal world. Furthermore, unless you stem the source of the goblins (say, lift the curse from the ruins), new ones will arise soon enough... Personally I like Goblins being biological creatures, but you might want to make them spirits/oni as well!

On a side note, this type of religion would probably be awesome with a relatively small sandbox and an E6 system. A small sandbox would mean that you could create a manageable number of "gods" and give each details and personality; and E6 would mean that anything with more than 6 HD could be a powerful god - a 10 HD dragon would be terrifying to combat!

 

[Starfox]

it also depends on how far you want to go with this - would, for example, Goblins be very minor spirits, the product of accursed ruins or unwholesome forests rather than biological creatures? That would make them more fantastic (and more similar to the Goblins of myth) and solve the whole "what do the goblins eat?" question - they are spirits, and follow the rules of the spiritworld, not of the mortal world. Furthermore, unless you stem the source of the goblins (say, lift the curse from the ruins), new ones will arise soon enough... Personally I like Goblins being biological creatures, but you might want to make them spirits/oni as well!

I've been using a variant of this for years. Monsters are the products of myth and belief - if the villagers believe a goblin lives in the hill, it will become true. I personally don't like monster ecologies and much prefer this mystical approach. Often the myth will focus on a person, say a vagrant or outcast, and grant that person powers accompanied by a monstrous from and whatever role local legend assigns the monster. Of course, personal history and motivation play a role as well, creating interesting creatures with a mythical feel.

 

[DumbPaladin]

This is in many ways the most interesting aspects. The focus of spirit worship is often to placate the spirit, render it harmless and channel its powers to good/useful purposes. A good hero defeating an evil spirit would then go on to build a shrine to it, possibly instituting a cult, thus placating it and avoid having it reform as some other monster. This also proposes a lot of alternate methods of problem solving, where you investigate WHY the spirit is evil/troublesome and try to placate it without violence.

You mean it's possible we can stop Hextor's reign of terror if we just ... give him a hug and get Heironeous to apologize to him? I like it.

 

[Shades of Green]

I have two ideas I'm toying with in regard to a more animistic cosmology in D&D, with some inspiration from the Norse/Celtic/Slavic (and some African) mythology.

The first is about Elves. Rather than being a demihuman race, "normal" elves are spirits/fey, and not a playable PC race. However, the playable "elves" are actually Changelings, that is Elven/faerie babies placed in cribs of Humans when the Human baby is stolen by the Fey. So they are, actually, fey/spirits raised by Humans, with foot in each world. This is why magic comes so naturally to them. Alternatively, they may be the offsprings of Humans who mated with minor "gods"/spirits/fey. They should have an uncanny, inhuman side in addition to their Human upbringing.

The second idea is about magic items, especially powerful and/or permanent items. Forging such items would require, for the very least, for a spirit/"god" to invest some of its essence in the item; really powerful items would have to be inhabited by a spirit/"god", either willingly or unwillingly. A relic sword might actually be imbued with the very soul of a legendary hero, and the skin of a dragon is no less than the skin of a god! Learning about the item's spirit and finding ways to interact with it may unlock the hidden secrets and new powers of the magic item.

EDIT: I have an interesting idea for my Wounded Gaia setting. During the steampunk-ish Age of Blossom, the great Magineers created mighty contraptions based on advanced spirit-binding techniques. Essentially, they forcibly trapped elemental spirits/"gods" in special clockwork receptacles, forcing the spirits to serve for eternity (until the binding is dispelled) as energy-sources for machines. The most common contraption was the Boiler of Endless Steam, where a fire spirit and a water spirit (a Salamander and an Undine?) were bound to the same spot, endlessly producing a stream of hot steam and causing unimaginable suffering to both spirits; this allowed for very efficient steam engines without the need for fuel or added water.

Of course, the spirits who broke free from such entrapment are typically VERY pissed off at mortals and might become extremely vengeful!