Player challenging DM authority and competative

[Ryujin]

The idea is for people to have fun, so let him play what he wants to play. If he starts to get competitive with the existing rogue then he may find that he's having trouble finding someone willing to flank with him, or who will toss him the odd healing surge when needed.

If he ticks off the rest of the party with his antics, the character won't survive very long. Sounds like a real glass cannon.

*EDIT* Also keep in mind that hybrids generally don't permit the use of one classes options, with the powers of another. He may well be planning on using both Shrouds and Rogue bonus damage at the same time. While I don't have my books with me, odds are that this isn't permitted.

 

[MrMyth]

*EDIT* Also keep in mind that hybrids generally don't permit the use of one classes options, with the powers of another. He may well be planning on using both Shrouds and Rogue bonus damage at the same time. While I don't have my books with me, odds are that this isn't permitted.

This is correct - for hybrids, Sneak Attack can only be used with rogue powers, and Shroud only with Assassin powers. Assassins do have an edge in that you can build up shrouds on turns where you are sneak attacking people; but to compensate, you get capped at 2 shrouds, so can rarely build up to doing more damage than you can do with Sneak Attack anyway.

The only real advantage is having Sneak Attack for when you have CA and having Shrouds for when you don't, but yeah, hard to really stack them together in any meaningful fashion.

 

[BobTheNob]

As the son of a therapist and a nephew of a psychologist, I'm going to jump in here and say please do not do this. Understanding and executing correct techniques for managing children is difficult and pop-psychology books for how to train your children are generally written by people who have NO background in the subject. Even if a person acts like a child, treating them like one will only exacerbate the problem.

There is no problem with setting boundaries, but the more you treat someone like a child the more they will act like one. Treating them as an adult who is responsible for their own actions is more likely to elicit a positive response from them than slapping their hand and sending them to their room.

You are not a psychologist. It's great that your previous player sorted out their issues, but they did this because THEY realized they needed to deal with their issues. NOT because you told him to play by the rules or GTFO. Non-consensual psychology sessions benefit nobody, and will often make a person not trained in it look worse for trying to pull some psuedo-intellectual assault on someone else.

Please do not play psychologist with anyone if you are not one. And certainly don't listen to pop-psychology websites and treat an adult(no matter how childish they act) as a child.

No problem with this. I hate pop psychology and I wouldnt advocate it to anyone. Maybe I stepped out of line. Point taken, cheerfully withdrawn.

But we have all met this guy before. I have met him multiple times, and there is no denying that the problem lies with him. Unfortunately, the DM has to contain it somehow so his actions dont spoil it for everyone else.

I stick by the point of setting boundaries and setting them hard. As long as they are reasonable, the reasonable players will concede to them, which means your trouble maker either tows the line or leaves.

To Shidaku...relax. Its all right. You are right, I shouldn't have advocated pop psychology. I am enough of an adult to concede I was wrong

 

[Sunseeker]

I stick by the point of setting boundaries and setting them hard. As long as they are reasonable, the reasonable players will concede to them, which means your trouble maker either tows the line or leaves.

To Shidaku...relax. Its all right. You are right, I shouldn't have advocated pop psychology. I am enough of an adult to concede I was wrong

I totally agree boundaries need to be set, but in an adult way. I do it with the best of my friends and people I like the least.

And don't worry, I'm cool. I've just met some people who REALLY think stuff like "I raised my children with fig trees and harpoon guns" (dot) com is the be-all, end-all parenting guide.

 

[Dausuul]

I totally agree boundaries need to be set, but in an adult way. I do it with the best of my friends and people I like the least.

And don't worry, I'm cool. I've just met some people who REALLY think stuff like "I raised my children with fig trees and harpoon guns" (dot) com is the be-all, end-all parenting guide.

I really want to see that website.

 

[fba827]

(snip)
And don't worry, I'm cool. I've just met some people who REALLY think stuff like "I raised my children with fig trees and harpoon guns" (dot) com is the be-all, end-all parenting guide.

I really want to see that website.

Well, my google-fu says there is always ... http://youtu.be/oHg5SJYRHA0

[sblock]

[/sblock]

 

[aurance]

Doesn't matter who's right or wrong. There's a pretty serious problem in group dynamics here and it's time to part ways.

 

[Saeviomagy]

1. Forcing someone to stick with a character that they're unhappy with is never a good idea - you just end up with an unhappy player and a suicidal character.

2. Dictating what characters one player is allowed to play when everyone else got to choose is likely to lead to a pissed off player.

And so, unsurprisingly, you've gotten an unhappy player, a suicidal character and now a pissed off player.

Scrap all this talk of 'setting boundaries' or 'the dm is the boss'. Do what is fun for your players.

That said, if it turns out that the things this player is doing is disrupting the fun of other players, he needs to have this pointed out to him, and if he still doesn't care, ditch him.

 

[Rune]

Seems like what may really be going on here is that the two of you are struggling for control. You believe you should have it, being the DM. He tries to wrangle it from you through whatever means he has at his disposal (character generation, inner-party conflict, general disruptive behavior). He wants to DM so he can have the control...

The thing is, the two of you are struggling over something that doesn't really exist. Control is an illusion.

As a DM, it is your job to set the stage, play the setting, and help facilitate the fun. It is not your job to enforce character choices, including generation or actions. Any "control" you are assuming in this situation is only given at the discretion of the players, and, clearly, one of them has a problem with it.

On the other hand, it is the players' responsibility to play fairly and share in and contribute to the fun. If any player (including, you, the DM) is not having fun due to the antics of a player, a conversation (dialogue, not monologue!) is in order, so that things can be put into perspective.

If you still cannot come to a consensus, and, for some reason, continue to want to play, there are a couple of directions you could go.

1.=Let him DM...and pull out every min/max-ing, munchkiny, rules-lawyering, character changing, disruptive stop you can, to show him what he's been missing.

...or...

2.=Recognize that control is an illusion, and let it go. When a player does something that tries to break the game/fun, be flexible and fold it into the game. Does he want to change characters every session? Fine. Someday, they're gonna love fighting the undead versions of his old characters.* If he wants to play another striker, instead of a controller, so what? Use less minions. Above all, listen to what your players want, and find a way to deliver. If you can do that, I think you will have a lot more fun (and I think your problem player will not bother you so much).

*With thanks to (Contact)'s ancient (by internet standards) [url="http://www.enworld.org/forum/story-hour/25093-retro-story-hour-contacts-temple-elemental-evil-2-a.html]Temple of Elemental Evil 2[/url] story hour. If you haven't read it, you must!

 

[Felon]

So, has anyone suggested yet that the DM compromise with the player? Let him play whatever he wants, then proceed to kill it ruthlessly. Repeat and rinse. Characters will perish in droves until the player finally creates the DM is happy with.

There was a time when this was the obvious, routine, and automatic way to handle any character issues. We've gotten soft.