[WotC's recent insanity] I think I've Figured It Out

[Cyronax]

I do agree with the post. I'm very disgruntled myself, trying to run a 3.5 game with all the players huddled around my single PHB because they can't afford to buy the 50 to 60 dollar out of print books.

I'm not trying to be snarky or tell you you're doing wrong, but most used book stores (offline physical locales) will have cheap 3.5 and older edition books. I see it all the time when I travel (and I like to check used book stores for all types of books).

My grandma lives in Bellevue, WA. I think I remember the Stargazers bookstore, near 405, once had a decent selection of D&D books. I was there in 2009 ...

 

[Crothian]

I do agree with the post. I'm very disgruntled myself, trying to run a 3.5 game with all the players huddled around my single PHB because they can't afford to buy the 50 to 60 dollar out of print books.

Mongoose printed a pocket PHB that a quick web search found you can get it for under $20.

 

[rounser]

But I've strayed...

Look, I agree with you, and don't want to ditch genuine innovation to hold onto tradition for it's own sake (e.g. I think the D&Dism of cleric is long overdue for a renaming and reconceptualisation, as it isn't really an archetype beyond "kind of a priest"), but I think the design culture of D&D is in the grip of one-true-wayism in the name of efficiency that has lead to a kind of extremist design output. I'm calling for moderation, pointing out that there is another way, other kinds of fun overlooked, but that the designers are so sure of themselves that these have been ditched in favor of some simplified rules of thumb. It's just gone way too far, even if I can see the WHY of it, because the WOTC designers do to an extent explain their thinking, but the blind spots are huge IMO.

And the grandfather of RPGs perhaps isn't the place to try out certain fundamental rules overhauls in the core, even if everyone in the room agrees with you...

 

[DragonLancer]

I do agree with the post. I'm very disgruntled myself, trying to run a 3.5 game with all the players huddled around my single PHB because they can't afford to buy the 50 to 60 dollar out of print books.

There's always Pathfinder.

 

[Cyronax]

After the last few months of releases, this reads as madness to me.
They rejigged their core books in an attempt to reel in old-timers with Essentials.
They brought back freakin' Gamma World, which would have absolutely tanked if they hadn't given it the love they did.

I'm just... baffled. If you could put forth some evidence that suggests they're not interested in catering towards long-time fans, it might make this more of a conversation, and less of a puzzling rant.

Yeah I agree. More examples to grist the counterpoint:

They also did a stealth release of a fourth campaign setting: Planescape.

Manual of the Planes
Sigil in DMG2
Plane Below
Plane Above
Demonomicon
Glommwrought (or whatever the pending Shadowfell boxed set is)
Heroes of the Shadowfell (possibly)

Anyway, my point is that they did do some big revamps for the cosmology. That said, it still bears a lot of resemblance to one of 2e most beloved moments. Even though WotC didn't reboot the Faction War, it clearly went out of its way to meld in much of the old with the new.


WotC even stopped using those silly compound monster names to asinine degrees.

C.I.D.

 

[Cyronax]

There's always Pathfinder.

That reminds of that time a Pathfinder guy got angry for suggesting he try 4e as a non-sequiter.

 

[mattcolville]

I think this gets to the crux of where things have gone so wrong; applying too much logic to as ornery a beast as D&D.

Logic suggests that simpler rules are better, and this is the error you're making here - if that were true we'd all ditch D&D for FUDGE.

That's not what I'm saying, I'm not saying simpler is fun, I'm saying fun is fun.

Strength isn't fun. Having a 17 Strength isn't fun. It's meaningless. You can't play a 17 Strength. It's not a game.

But powers are fun. They're not simple, I never said anything about simple, that's your issue. Powers are the MOST complex part of D&D, and the best part, because they're cool and fun.

I'm not saying "screw all that other stuff," because I think it's *complex*, I'm saying it because it's irrelevant.

 

[DragonLancer]

That reminds of that time a Pathfinder guy got angry for suggesting he try 4e as a non-sequiter.

Except in this case Pathfinder isn't such a big leap from 3.5 which they know (in fact it's an improvement) and the books are in print.

 

[lamia]

I'm not trying to be snarky or tell you you're doing wrong, but most used book stores (offline physical locales) will have cheap 3.5 and older edition books. I see it all the time when I travel (and I like to check used book stores for all types of books).

My grandma lives in Bellevue, WA. I think I remember the Stargazers bookstore, near 405, once had a decent selection of D&D books. I was there in 2009 ...

Actually, most of my group and I work at a used bookstore in Redmond. Most books are available for half price. But the PHB, which we've only gotten one copy of in the last year..55 bucks and sold in one day. Sadly we don't get much of a discount on out of print stuff. I think I'll just end up breaking my no laptops rule.

 

[howandwhy99]

Every single one of us will find something to complain about and, it seems these days, more and more of us are feeling disillusioned as if we lost something precious but we can't remember where it is or even exactly what it was...

In my experience, that was the pattern finding. The game element in Go rather than austere storytelling. So I play D&D, a big, cooperative simulation game hidden behind a screen and played as a reality puzzle game.