I'm considering dropping Pathfinder to return to D&D 2e.

[UHF]

Can I just put in a plug for Castles and Crusades?

My friend recently switched from the AD&D to C&C and he's been particularly happy. Specifically its way easier to run than AD&D, and it is more or less compatible.

The players don't really notice a difference between the two, but the DM does.

Besides its not like you're changing.. both were written by Gary Gygax...

 

[Glade Riven]

I ran them through D0 Hollows Last hope a while back and figured it would make since to go ahead and go into D1 Crown of the kobold king since it was next in succession. I modified the opening of the story slightly since they would have already been familiar with the town and D1 reads as though the characters have never been there. Other than that I ran it pretty much as written.

Hrm..that may be the issue. While the adventures are good sellers, they aren't necessarally right for everyone. Can you identify what it is specifically that appeals to you with 2e over Pathfinder? Or does it just not feel right?

 

[Odhanan]

I've been into Pathfinder for a little while now and I'm just not getting it. I played a mix or AD&D 1st and 2nd ed forever and I love the raw and grittiness of it. Every time we sit down to play Pathfinder I keep feeling like something is missing. Like Pathfinder is just too polished or standardized for my taste.

I have a wealth of 2e stuff and there is even more material for it that I haven't played yet.

I am open for opinions and suggestions.

Dude, I just got one thing to say to you: get back to the game you really like, play the hell out of it, and have the time of your life.

Life's too short to play games you don't really like.

 

[zonetrooper1]

Hrm..that may be the issue. While the adventures are good sellers, they aren't necessarally right for everyone. Can you identify what it is specifically that appeals to you with 2e over Pathfinder? Or does it just not feel right?

I've been thinking about what a lot of you have said while I was at work today and I think the skills, feats and the way some of the classes are handled is all I really like about pathfinder. I feel like I'm playing an RPG based on a video game and I don't really care for video games. I'm a fan of Conan and the sword and the sorcerer, the old b-grade stuff. That's what I think of when I play 2e, not WOW (which I find boring as hell).

- I don't like the ability mods for every score.
- I don't like that all classes advance with the same number of exp.
- I don't like that every race can be every class.
- I don't like that combat gets so bogged down with rules.
- I don't like that a lot of the class features are getting muddied by skills.
- I don't like how the rogue is now kinder and gentler.
- Level progression should be slow. That's why we play. To keep pushing forward with our character so they can survive crazier and weirder scenarios.

And that's just a few. My son has a third level half orc fighter that gets a +8 to hit and a 20 AC. That's crazy. When I played 2e, it took years to move my character to levels where most adventures were a cake walk. Now we can do it in one adventure path. Oh , I just did a "back in my day" thing didn't I. lol. Anyway.

I think I have pretty much made up my mind to go back to 2e. Pathfinder is a good game that's for sure, but it's not for me. Thanks everyone for your opinion, suggestions, and just being an all around great sounding board. You guys rock!

 

[zonetrooper1]

Dude, I just got one thing to say to you: get back to the game you really like, play the hell out of it, and have the time of your life.

Life's too short to play games you don't really like.

You said it, brother.

 

[Simrion]

Heh...what's stopping you? We play 2E regularly (have been for the past year and a half!)

 

[Celtavian]

re

2E was a fun game. I enjoyed the heck out of it.

 

[Stormonu]

You might want to take a gander and Castles & Crusades; it mixes elements of 1E/2E and 3E. However, good luck with whatever you decide to do.

And that's just a few. My son has a third level half orc fighter that gets a +8 to hit and a 20 AC. That's crazy. When I played 2e, it took years to move my character to levels where most adventures were a cake walk. Now we can do it in one adventure path. Oh , I just did a "back in my day" thing didn't I. lol. Anyway.

Actually that doesn't sound too out of whack . Back in 2E that would be Plate + Large Shield +1 + 16 Dex for defense, 18/76+ Str and a +1 sword (+6 to hit, +8 damage). Kinda up there, but not out reach in the old game and certainly not beyond what I was seeing in my local games. What I find mainly different is that monsters are scarier in 3E than their 2E counterparts. Back in 2E days, things like AC didn't scale much; they do in 3E and the attack bonuses need to "keep up". But, each to their own.

 

[Shazman]

I'm not sure I agree with that statement but I have to admit that I like the way they cleared up the back stab so its easier to determine when it was legal and when it wasn't.

I played thieves a lot in 2e, so I can speak from experience. Playing a thief in 2e is an exercise in frustration as far as combat is concerned. You have terrible Thac0 and hit points. The only time you can hope to be effective is when you get to backstab, which doesn't happen often because of all the hoops you have to jump through to do it. You can be pretty useful outside of combat thanks to your skills, but in combat you are more of a liability than anything. Now, if you use a houserule let the thief backstab when he is flanking, that would help a lot.

 

[billd91]

I played thieves a lot in 2e, so I can speak from experience. Playing a thief in 2e is an exercise in frustration as far as combat is concerned. You have terrible Thac0 and hit points. The only time you can hope to be effective is when you get to backstab, which doesn't happen often because of all the hoops you have to jump through to do it. You can be pretty useful outside of combat thanks to your skills, but in combat you are more of a liability than anything. Now, if you use a houserule let the thief backstab when he is flanking, that would help a lot.

I would consider putting them on the same THAC0 track as clerics as a helpful house rule as well.

And along the lines of using weapon proficiencies for "feats" - allow a character to use Dex as their melee attack bonus for the cost of one proficiency like Weapon Finesse. I can see a rogue player really liking that idea.