Essentials Swashbuckling Slayer

[GameDoc]

I was playing around with different character concepts this week and it occurred to me to try a swashbuckler style Slayer using HotFL.

The concept hinges on using Dexterity as the primary ability and taking the Melee Training feat to use Dexterity for basic melee attacks.

There are good options for stances and feats to support the build, but my main concern is weapon choice.

The rapier would be the classic choice for a swashbuckler, although I can also see using a scimitar or longsword. Either way, the [W] is 1d8.

Compare this do the d10 or d12 of the suggested weapons for a Slayer, and I am unsure if the character can fill his role effectively. It's probably sub-optimal, but I'm not concerned about total optimization. I just don't want him to be ineffective.

Any feedback?

 

[Aulirophile]

Light Blade feat support is pretty stellar. Nimble Blade for another +1 with CA, +1/2/3 untyped bonus to damage rolls from Light Blade Expertise with CA. Basically if you find a way of getting CA, you're fine, and with all the methods out there these days that shouldn't be at all difficult.

The real issue that the new melee training changes the stat mod to hit, but it only gives you stat mod/2 for damage. You're going to be a little behind in static mods. Plus the classic Rogue and to some degree the Thief actually have swashbuckling feats (like Blade and Buckler Duelist) built-in to the class, so if the concept is what you're going for, Slayer isn't the best choice.

But yes, a light blade Slayer could be made to work in a competent fashion fairly easily.

 

[Zhou Yu]

For Stances, OP, I'd go for Mobile Blade as one of your two original choices. And probably the +2 damage one. Why? Well, the damage for when you're up close and personal, of course, representing your character's ability to strike in spots that hurt more than regular places, just like how a swashbuckler in the movies would stick their blade into the enemy's shoulder to make the guy's arm go numb.

Mobile Blade, well, for the hit and run. Stunt it up so that you swing in on a chandelier for your regular move, strike the guy, then spring away on the rebound, or grabbing a curtain and doing a 'run by slashing', and so on.

 

[Baumi]

Why does it have to be a slayer? A Slayer is a two-handed heavy-Armor high toughness Warrior ... nothing that fits a Swashbuckling Charakter.

A Rogue (Thief) or Ranger on the other hand would be a much better fit.

 

[Lord Ernie]

As Aulirophile said, Light Blades are currently just about the best supported weapon type in the game. I'd add Surprising charge as another good feat, given the Slayer's natural propensity for Charge builds. In addition, you could MC into rogue for access to Sneak Attack 1/encounter, and some of the later charge feats (roundabout charge makes charging into Combat Advantage very easy).

 

[Obryn]

Also, don't forget Deft Blade if this character hits Paragon. Attacking Reflex is just ... marvy.

-O

 

[GameDoc]

Why does it have to be a slayer? A Slayer is a two-handed heavy-Armor high toughness Warrior ... nothing that fits a Swashbuckling Charakter.

A Rogue (Thief) or Ranger on the other hand would be a much better fit.

I considered theif and scout both, but I was trying to create a specific type of swashbuckler - brash, bold, but honorable warrior. Maybe "swashbuckler" was too generic of a term. Duelist may be better.

He doesn't sneak around , pick your pocket, or stab you in the back like some craven theif. He challenges you head on.

He's not a woodsman or outdoorsy type either. He's urbane and will spend his down time in some city tavern drinking, carousing, and wooing the ladies with tales of his exploits.

Except for the aforementioned weapon issue, I read the slayer as being very supportive of a swashbuckler - Mobile Blade, Duelist Assault, and Poised Assault stances; Dex bonus to damage; and with a high enough Dex, you can also pass on heavy armor.

But I see your point. A different selection of stances and feats and the slayer can also make a gladiator, a berserker, or a thug.

 

[DEFCON 1]

I considered theif and scout both, but I was trying to create a specific type of swashbuckler - brash, bold, but honorable warrior. Maybe "swashbuckler" was too generic of a term. Duelist may be better.

He doesn't sneak around , pick your pocket, or stab you in the back like some craven theif. He challenges you head on.

He's not a woodsman or outdoorsy type either. He's urbane and will spend his down time in some city tavern drinking, carousing, and wooing the ladies with tales of his exploits.

You basically have two options here to get what you want... and both of them have small negative details you'd have to just be okay with. The Dexslayer has a slight game mechanics difficulty (half mod for damage); the Thief has a slight roleplaying difficulty (certain skills auto-granted and a 'class name' that you don't really want). So in either case, you just have to compromise. Be slightly under-powered compared to "standard" slayers, or have abilities you really don't want your character to have (even if you never actually use them).

If I was making the choice... I would pick the Thief class package and build the character, but then just take a pencil and draw a line through the words 'Thief', 'Stealth', and 'Thievery' on my character sheet. Just because the game is giving me these three things (a class identity, and two automatic skills) doesn't mean I need to accept them. But in every other facet, the Thief class would give me what I wanted.

 

[Prestidigitalis]

It's not a bad idea overall.

- The loss in damage from using Dex for melee isn't that large, and will be offset somewhat by the occasions when you need to attack at range. You can also spend your ability scores more flexibly, to get a high Con or Wis.

- The loss in damage from using a Rapier is larger, and hard to offset.

- You lose the benefit of Slayer Weapon Specialization, and have no way to get it back or swap it for something else. You also won't get the benefit of Greater Weapon Specialization if you take the Mythic Slayer paragon path -- but you probably won't.

- If you go full Swashbuckler and eschew Heavy Armor, you really lose out at levels 19+. Armored Mobility at 19 gives you Resist All (10 + Dex mod) against damage from OAs while wearing Heavy Armor. Unfettered Slayer at 24 eliminates speed penalties from wearing Heavy Armor. Those are nice features.

Honestly, I think the best path to Swashbuckler using Slayer is to ask the DM to let you tweak the build. Come up with a reason why Slayer is a better starting point that Thief or vanilla Rogue.

As an aside, I half think that the Slayer is intended to serve a function that has never been explicitly mentioned: as a charge-oriented alternative for those who don't want Barbarian flavor, or who want the flavor but dislike the mechanics.

 

[Prestidigitalis]

If I was making the choice... I would pick the Thief class package and build the character, but then just take a pencil and draw a line through the words 'Thief', 'Stealth', and 'Thievery' on my character sheet. Just because the game is giving me these three things (a class identity, and two automatic skills) doesn't mean I need to accept them. But in every other facet, the Thief class would give me what I wanted.

A flexible DM would let you swap out Stealth and Thievery as the automatic skills and plug in Streetwise and Diplomacy, given your description: "He's urbane and will spend his down time in some city tavern drinking, carousing, and wooing the ladies with tales of his exploits." He's a worldly sort, so it makes sense to spend the other skill slots on Perception, Insight and the Fighter-y stuff.

If you don't like the flavor of Backstab and Sneak Attack... Well, maybe you could get Power Strike instead of Backstab, but the fact is that the Thief has two real core traits: Sneak Attack plus skills and skill bonuses. Without SA, it's not a Thief. With SA, it's not really your concept.