January and Beyond!

[Nahat Anoj]

While I think the shade is fine thematically, I agree with the main mechanical complaints voiced in this thread. For my part, I don't mind the healing surge penalty as long as they are compensated for it. As a start, I might replace the current racial power with an encounter power shadow form where, until the end of their next turn, they are insubstantial and can become hidden in any form of concealment/cover. I might make Practiced Sneak into a "reroll Stealth" abilitly like what goliaths have for Athletics.

I also have some misgivings about shades being an actual D&D race. From the brief preview provided, it looks like humans become shades during their life. That sounds less like a race and more like a feat (like dhampir), theme, paragon path, or epic destiny. It's not a huge deal I guess and it'll probably work from a mechanics perspective, but there's a process to become a shade not unlike how there's a process to become a lich (it makes me wonder if they'll come out with a lich race at some point). I'll be interested to see if there's any discussion about human PCs becoming shades after first level, or what happens if shades decide to procreate.

The vryloka sound like they'll be a more traditional D&D race (or at least, as distinct from humans as tieflings and shadar-kai are), and I'm looking forward to seeing it. I liked the dhampir, but when they came out I was a little disappointed it was "merely" a bloodline feat - I think a bona fide vampire-tainted race would be neat.

I'm okay with a vampire class, but personally I'd prefer it to be a source or origin that would allow for more choices when you gain a new power. For example, when hitting level 5, a vampire could choose a class daily attack power or whatever is offered for a vampire daily attack power.

 

[Klaus]

On the issue of negativity:

First, major kudos to Klaus for not reacting defensively (or worse, angrily) to the criticism.

Second, in defense of the detractors, I haven't seen any comments that were notably unfair or uncivil. We all have a right to our opinions, and the fact that Klaus is a highly respected member of the ENWorld community should not give his material immunity to criticism.

On the issue of the One With Shadow power:

It baffles me that after so much discussion of the Economy of Actions, we get a power that seems to ignore the lessons learned. Given that this is preview material, is it possible that making it a Standard Action is a misprint? After all, look at the title in the power card: One With Shadow Shade.

I'd like to come on record and say that every criticism posted here has been civil and thoughtful (even if I don't agree with something here and there, because I know the full race and the rest of the stuff in the book). EN World lives up to its reputation for civility, so kudos all around!

 

[Dausuul]

All discussion of shades aside... I must say, I'm very interested in the vampire class. Granted you can't tell us the mechanics, and you may not know anything about this particular bit of the book, but maybe you can answer this much: Does it involve being or becoming a true (undead, lives on blood, burns up in sunlight) vampire?

 

[Aegeri]

I'd like to come on record and say that every criticism posted here has been civil and thoughtful (even if I don't agree with something here and there, because I know the full race and the rest of the stuff in the book). EN World lives up to its reputation for civility, so kudos all around!

Whatever you do don't read the official forums.

 

[Nemesis Destiny]

I just wanted to pop in here to say that I'm looking forward to HoS, for a few reasons.

I have a Necromancer that I've been playing for a long time (since 2e) that I think will benefit greatly from this book, either directly of via ideas for houserules (sometimes I find a book helps more by what it doesn't cover). So far 4e hasn't covered the bases I need covered to make this character "pop" mechanically. I've had to settle for heavy reflavouring and generous houserules.

One of my players (my wife, actually) has a character from a 3-year campaign arc who'd become infused by Shadow, and wasn't sure if he was becoming a vampire or not. She was really attached to this character, but so far there hasn't been anything in 4e that has really worked for the concept. I expect that I might find something in this book, or if not, like I said above, I might have a better idea of how to houserule it by what doesn't get covered. The Shade, Vryloka, and Vampire class have some interesting possibilities here.

I'm not expecting the world from this book, but I'm cautiously optimistic that it will have some things in it that I will like, in addition to the stuff that 15-year-old emo boys get excited about.

 

[Klaus]

All discussion of shades aside... I must say, I'm very interested in the vampire class. Granted you can't tell us the mechanics, and you may not know anything about this particular bit of the book, but maybe you can answer this much: Does it involve being or becoming a true (undead, lives on blood, burns up in sunlight) vampire?

Can't comment on that, sorry.

 

[Klaus]

I just wanted to pop in here to say that I'm looking forward to HoS, for a few reasons.

I have a Necromancer that I've been playing for a long time (since 2e) that I think will benefit greatly from this book, either directly of via ideas for houserules (sometimes I find a book helps more by what it doesn't cover). So far 4e hasn't covered the bases I need covered to make this character "pop" mechanically. I've had to settle for heavy reflavouring and generous houserules.

One of my players (my wife, actually) has a character from a 3-year campaign arc who'd become infused by Shadow, and wasn't sure if he was becoming a vampire or not. She was really attached to this character, but so far there hasn't been anything in 4e that has really worked for the concept. I expect that I might find something in this book, or if not, like I said above, I might have a better idea of how to houserule it by what doesn't get covered. The Shade, Vryloka, and Vampire class have some interesting possibilities here.

I'm not expecting the world from this book, but I'm cautiously optimistic that it will have some things in it that I will like, in addition to the stuff that 15-year-old emo boys get excited about.

Those two things you mention (you necro and you wife's character)? HUGE ammounts of stuff for you!

 

[Nemesis Destiny]

Those two things you mention (you necro and you wife's character)? HUGE ammounts of stuff for you!

Glad to hear it. I admire your work (loved the Shivs of Sorcery), so I'm sure I will enjoy reading it, even if I don't end up using any of it (though that seems unlikely).

I look forward to the finished product.

 

[Lostdwarf]

+1.

Sadly small, speed 5 (4 if you're not careful) gnomes have been suffering from that sacred cow since PHB2. I thought they would learn their mistake there, but doesn't seem like it.

I half expect someone to go out and make a sickly Shade Wizard with 8 Con so the character starts out with 18 HP, and 4 surges. But no worries, he is trained in stealth, and can spend his standard actions lurking in the shadows during a fight.

I don't think that last comment is really fair. If you select the physically weakest combination of races, classes, and stats available, and then complain that your character is to physically weak, its the game's fault? Im not saying that the Shade gets full value for that surge they are giving up, but for goodness sake, if somone builds a fighter with a 12 strenght and can't hit anything is the game at fault or the player for buidling a really stupid character?

 

[Aegeri]

Personally I get major chuckles consistently out of the "Death of Shadow" thread on the official forums.

I am curious how the vampire class works. I also really really really hope it is not called "Vampire", because that would be amazingly silly.