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I bet a shade not using that power is better than a shade using that power in this situation is better.

This point raises another major concern I have with the racial power - it is not 'idiot proof' for novices. Experienced players will know it's not worth spending a standard action just to gain CA for their next attack. New players may think that they are supposed to attack every other round because their racial lets them do that. This will horribly reduce their effectiveness leading to 1) the player not having fun when they notice how little impact they have on every fight. 2)the party getting TPK'd because their striker is not doing remotely enough damage to enemies.
 

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@Aegerli: Ok, so shades need to fight at least in twilight to make somewhat reasonable use of their power. I really missed the ally part of the power.

I still believe the shade makes funny non-archetyp characters that can be quite effective. Saving a lot of feats to dabble in the rogue/warlock department.

@Prestidigitals:
Wizards uses a lot of grey boxes to point out traps. The executioner e.g. now has the grey box that suggest using base attacks, not their at will powers regularily in combat.

The shade may have a box that reads: Although the shade may look as a good race for the rogue class, you don´t gain a lot of benefits. It is more for those of you trying to be roguish without beeing a rogue at all.

I guess the whole heroes of shadow book is an "out-of-the-box" book. So a shade may be fitting in there quite well. We will see it son enough.

p.s.: i think it is mean of you that you make fun of me, just because i can´t type. My keyboard tends steal some of my letters. And sometimes i am just a bit too lazy to proofread.
 

p.s.: i think it is mean of you that you make fun of me, just because i can´t type. My keyboard tends steal some of my letters. And sometimes i am just a bit too lazy to proofread.

I wasn't making fun of you. I was just doing what I normally do, which is quote accurately and then correct where correction is due. I didn't mean anything by it. Anyway, my kyboard does the same thing somtimes.
 


Again it's the action sink that we keep going back to and a wizard with sustains is being hugely pressed for actions. He's not going to be interested at all in a power that basically drains him of vital actions he'll need, not to mention the use of better encounter and other powers.

Speaking as a frequent wizard player... WORD. So many spells. So few actions.
 

Ok, so since the argument over the Shade's ability seems to be spiralling down into the usual circles, let's see if we can take this in a new direction. What builds would the Shade's benefit be uniquely useful for?

You can't deny that the core premise of One With Shadow - the ability to hide in situations where you normally can't - is a strong one. The main problem is the action economy, as has been noted, which makes it much, much worse than other racial powers, even when being usable at-will.

Still, there has to be some concepts it opens up which weren't really viable previously.

I suppose it could be theoretically good for leaders - the ability to move amongst the injured without notice can be handy, and leaders do get access to minor actions for healing that can help them contribute even while using this to hide. Similarly, defenders could make use of this - mark an enemy, and then hide, putting foes in a lose-lose scenario.

Pacifist based builds could benefit even more so, though these days most still make attacks, just ones that don't deal damage. I vaguely recalled some Paragon Path designed around giving out standard actions that couldn't be used to make attacks, but haven't been able to actually find it. If something like that existed, those would be of good use here.

The obvious approach, of course, is to focus on a build that gains benefits for being hidden. There are a variety of feats and other options that take advantage of this. Champion of the Vigil makes for a very nice paragon path. A number of others ones seem aimed at a sniper build, which is probably not a great fit - they can usually get hiding anyway, without needing One with Shadow.

Instead, what about a build designed to hide and then move into the midst of enemies? You give up a Standard action, but potentially make up for it by getting a free Opportunity Attack? Or even more, if you can find a way to stay hidden while making OAs. Not sure if any ways exist, but let's see what we can find...

Shadow of the Wild lets you re-hide after attacking while hidden, whether you hit or miss - though you take a penalty on the Stealth check, and need to be outdoors.

At Paragon levels, Heavy Blade Opportunity lets you use a melee At-Will instead of a basic attack for your OA... such as Gloaming Cut, a rogue At-Will which lets you shift and hide after the attack. It requires taking another feat to let you use a heavy blade with rogue powers, but otherwise sounds pretty much perfect, once one hits Paragon.

Now, Rogue seems a bit counterintuitive here, due to the wasted 'bonus Stealth skill' from Shade. On the other hand, the change to Sneak Attack works well with this strategy - you can get Sneak Attack on every Opportunity Attack you make, in fact. One might even go the Hybrid route, where you aren't stuck with taking Stealth automatically, and can pick up some other useful tricks.

Other useful feats include Mark of Sentinel or Opportunity Sidestep, which let us shift while we take OAs, thus making it even harder for the enemy to figure out exactly where we are.

So, at Heroic levels, we are mainly effective in the outdoors, where we can use One With Shadow, sneak into the midst of the enemy, and then take opportunity attacks aplenty as they walk away from us. At Paragon levels, we can do this wherever we want. The Standard action spent on One with Shadow every other round is made up for by the OAs we get.

We probably want to invest in ways to knock enemies prone or slow them, so they can't just reach our allies and get locked in non-provoking combat. Or we can find ways to move enemies around, so we can slide them away from our allies and then force them to provoke again to get back to the fight. We invest in various options that give bonuses for attacking while hidden or with OAs, and damage should be pretty respectable.

In the end, we spend the combat as an invisible dude in the middle of the field who is constantly stabbing the enemy. And that's pretty cool.

You can probably try and pull off versions of this build without the Shade, if you have enough ways to turn invisible or hide... but without nearly the reliability.
 

Even when creatures are aware of you, you can hide behind an ally and then keep hidden as you move to flank the enemy, or reach the enemy leader, etc. UngeheuerLich has the right idea when comparing the shade with a lurker.

I assume this means that Shades have a "Monstrous damage" mechanic for when they delurk? Something like 50% extra damage to make up for losing the standard action should just about work I think. Because that's about the only way this thing's viable in combat (or if they get to buy back their extra action when they delurK).

Alternatively: "Shade's decloaking" - trigger: The shade becomes unhidden by making an attack. Effect: You make an at will attack on your target.

A little strong because Shades can start the encounter stealthed. But that's about what it would take to make this a viable power in combat.
 

Another fun (likely boring though and maybe not terribly effective) trick is for a paladin focused on bumping up his Divine Challenge and then hiding so the enemy has to either attack his ally taking some big damage if it hits, or having huge penalties attacking the shade? I believe I saw some builds out there that used Eyebite to do this also.

It may be a bit hard to hide with plate, but really the -2 check penalty can be removed with a background benefit easily. The high dex would help with Heavy Blade feats also. You'd be dropping Str, but that can still work.
 

Yes, or that slayer stance whch lets you shift after hitting with a base attack. Maybe you really make up something out of it.

I like the racial encounter: when you hit an enemy you were invisible to at the start of your turn, you deal 1W extra damage.

seems like a neat idea.
 

BTW, if the Shade truly does get additional feat or power options that turn the One With Shadow power into a useful feature, wouldn't it make sense to drop some hints in the preview article? Shouldn't the Shade preview work to make players say "Damn, I need that book -- the Shade lets me build a type of character I never could before."
 

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