Leatherhead
Possibly a Idiot.
I find it funny that people in this thread assume the internet is to blame for people aggressively defending their opinions.
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3 reasons why the design team shouldn't visit ENWorld
- Thread starter Kunimatyu
- Start date
I think it depends on the community.
If the only place you visit is your own forums which you moderate heavily, then it's an echo chamber of "I am awesome!" It leads to a creativity breakdown, where nothing changes and nothing new is ever attempted. This is a Bad Thing. I can think of a few companies who do this, though they're video game ones, not tabletop.
If the only place you visit is your own forums which you moderate heavily, then it's an echo chamber of "I am awesome!" It leads to a creativity breakdown, where nothing changes and nothing new is ever attempted. This is a Bad Thing. I can think of a few companies who do this, though they're video game ones, not tabletop.
amnuxoll
First Post
How could a game designer create a situation where s/he can get feedback from fans where the noise-to-signal ration is lower?
Every admin on every board has a super secret method to filtering the content for quality, yes? From my own experience with planetadnd.com's Mass gaming site over nearly a decade worth of geekdom, I would suggest only one thing for any author trying to filter content.
~ Depend on staff to filter the junk material and ignore most of the fluff.
If you are spending ten hours a day on your own projects, you have no way to compete with "full time" forum addicts and staff that know people with quality work. It is best to let your staff do the leg work, basically.
It is the only suggestion I would ever make to a group of authors with a fan site.
houstonderek
First Post
Something Erik forgot to mention...
Paizo also hires people from their fanbase. I know of at least three people off the top of my head who were just regular posters who were hired by Paizo in the last year or so, one even relocating from the East coast to take a job.
Furthermore, they run a contest every year looking for new creative talent, and have used contestants (and not even just people who hit their "top 4" in the contest) as freelancers. Heck, they've used fan feeelancers who never entered their contest (AFAIK). This also generates a feeling of the fan base having a stake in Paizo's future.
Being part of a community like that makes fans feel way more invested in the company on a personal level. The feedback and participation on the Paizo forums by everyone from the C.E.O. to the guy who boxes orders for shipment cultivates a "family" atmosphere (and, like any family, there are black sheep and the drunk uncles - I know I probably fall into that category, I tend to be a PITA for the moderators), and that atmosphere makes Paizo special to its fans.
I don't see the wild speculation on the Paizo boards that I do on a lot of boards; the devs and employees always seem to be willing to explain business decisions, design decisions, and field questions about a variety of Paizo and non-Paizo related topics. Unlike the WotC boards, which are crazy with wild speculation and whatnot. This also fosters a "Paizo loves its customers" vibe I rarely get from gaming companies. I know WotC values its customers (as do 99% of other companies - GW I'm not too sure about, though), but the way they interact (or don't interact) seems to create unnecessary anxiety in their fan base (like the thread that led me here).
So, I guess I'm saying I disagree with the article posted by the OP. Healthy interaction with the fans helps devs and the like keep a finger on the pulse of customer wants, needs and concerns. Good practice, if you ask me.
Paizo also hires people from their fanbase. I know of at least three people off the top of my head who were just regular posters who were hired by Paizo in the last year or so, one even relocating from the East coast to take a job.
Furthermore, they run a contest every year looking for new creative talent, and have used contestants (and not even just people who hit their "top 4" in the contest) as freelancers. Heck, they've used fan feeelancers who never entered their contest (AFAIK). This also generates a feeling of the fan base having a stake in Paizo's future.
Being part of a community like that makes fans feel way more invested in the company on a personal level. The feedback and participation on the Paizo forums by everyone from the C.E.O. to the guy who boxes orders for shipment cultivates a "family" atmosphere (and, like any family, there are black sheep and the drunk uncles - I know I probably fall into that category, I tend to be a PITA for the moderators), and that atmosphere makes Paizo special to its fans.
I don't see the wild speculation on the Paizo boards that I do on a lot of boards; the devs and employees always seem to be willing to explain business decisions, design decisions, and field questions about a variety of Paizo and non-Paizo related topics. Unlike the WotC boards, which are crazy with wild speculation and whatnot. This also fosters a "Paizo loves its customers" vibe I rarely get from gaming companies. I know WotC values its customers (as do 99% of other companies - GW I'm not too sure about, though), but the way they interact (or don't interact) seems to create unnecessary anxiety in their fan base (like the thread that led me here).
So, I guess I'm saying I disagree with the article posted by the OP. Healthy interaction with the fans helps devs and the like keep a finger on the pulse of customer wants, needs and concerns. Good practice, if you ask me.
Jason Bulmahn
Adventurer
Its not really about the situation as it is about learning to identify the two groups in a timely and easy fashion. This is a skill I had to learn very quickly during the open playtest and I probably had to go through around 100k posts on various topics.
Listening to the players, fans, and forum regulars is an important part of my job. These are the people who want us to succeed and want to help support us. They help us make better products. Anybody who does not realize that listening to your customers is good idea is not long for this business. I greatly appreciate our fans and playtesters and I know that we have made better games because of their passion.
So its not about signal to noise. Its about understanding what your fans want. That is never noise.
Jason Bulmahn
Lead Designer
Paizo Publishing
James Jacobs
Adventurer
And to throw a real-world, quantifiable example of proof about how listening to feedback and reading your own messageboards or similar boards can work to your favor...
One of the most-often cited complaints about our adventure paths is that they're too railroady. Had I not read those complaints, I never would have been inspired to create the Kingmaker adventure path. MANY of those complaints about railroads came from here or our own messageboards. And I felt that the complaints were spot on.
And so, as a direct result of that customer feedback, the Kingmaker adventure path exists. It's one of our most popular Adventure Paths. It won an Ennie. It resulted in a sizable boost of subscribers. It's been an IMMENSE success.
Listening to your customers and interacting with them has always been important. Now that the internet makes such communication easier than ever, it's more important than ever.
One of the most-often cited complaints about our adventure paths is that they're too railroady. Had I not read those complaints, I never would have been inspired to create the Kingmaker adventure path. MANY of those complaints about railroads came from here or our own messageboards. And I felt that the complaints were spot on.
And so, as a direct result of that customer feedback, the Kingmaker adventure path exists. It's one of our most popular Adventure Paths. It won an Ennie. It resulted in a sizable boost of subscribers. It's been an IMMENSE success.
Listening to your customers and interacting with them has always been important. Now that the internet makes such communication easier than ever, it's more important than ever.
It's important to note that the guy isn't coming from a tabletop perspective, but a video game one, and there are differences.
Chainsaw Mage
First Post
It's called "digital courage." People who would never dare utter a hostile word to someone's face (what you call "aggressively defending their opinions") will often feel quite free to let it fly in email or web forums.
Surely you are aware of this phenomenon?
The internet is not to blame for the people being dicks. But it *is* to blame for giving them a forum to BE dicks.
Chainsaw Mage
First Post
Jason, forgive me for saying so, but this last statement I've quoted really seems more like a PR statement than a genuine belief.
If some of your fans wanted you to completely abandon Pathfinder and start writing adventures for 4e, that would count as noise, wouldn't it? Unless you can honestly tell me that you would take such extreme opinions seriously.
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