Fellow player fudging rolls

[olshanski]

when Joe fudges a die roll, just announce what it actually was. If he disagrees, say "OK". Then when he does it again, say out loud what he actually rolled. If he disagrees, then act indignant that he would call you a liar and propose that he roll in the open so everyone can see.

If he refuses, then go with one of the speeches below.

"Hey everyone, part of the fun of the game is estimating the odds, and deciding how to handle a situation. I've noticed Joe regularly fudges his dice rolls, he rolls a 7 and claims a 17. If we all agree that fudging dice is reasonable and can add to the drama, I can live with that. If the rest of you would rather play a game where you let the dice fall where they may, then lets all agree not to fudge rolls."

Unless you really cannot live with fudging dice, in which case you say.
"Hey everyone, part of the fun of the game is estimating the odds, and deciding how to handle a situation. I've noticed Joe regularly fudges his dice rolls, he rolls a 7 and claims a 17. This is frustrating for me, and I propose that we all roll in the open so that the rolls are obvious to everyone... Otherwise, I will be quitting this game because I just don't think its fun when players are fudging dice rolls."

 

[Jeff Wilder]

Once a cheater always a cheater

Not true. When I was much younger, I cheated my ass off in D&D. That stopped a long, long time ago.

What people want from and get out of the game changes, and that it turn can eliminate (or create, I suppose) the desire to cheat. I think that cheating in an RPG is probably negatively correlated with social, psychological, and emotional maturity, but not as strongly as folks might think.

 

[the Jester]

People being distracted by the Internet is kind of a problem in the game too, so maybe we could kill two birds with one stone here without being too obvious about the cheating issue.

YMMV, IMHO, etc, but- Why don't you want to be obvious about the cheating issue? It should be made clear that cheating is the issue and is not acceptable, even if nobody gets singled out as "that guy". And I do NOT support singling him out unless the problem continues after it's been discussed as a group.

If you feel that calling him on his cheating, or telling the dm, would be too hard, why worry about it? Let it ride, it must not be important.

If you feel that the integrity of the dice are important to the game, why would you care if he storms out in a huff? You don't have to accept cheaters in your game, you don't have to game with your friends to stay friends with them and you do not have to feel like you're the bad guy here. You aren't the one cheating, he is.

 

[jasper]

i not going to read past the first post yet. BS he is cheater. Call him on it in the open at the table. Try changing snake eyes to natural seven in a crap game. Part of the game is the RANDOMIZE dice roll.

 

[Umbran]

On message boards, sarcasm is not a useful tool to get folks who disagree with you to understand and accept your point of view. That's because sarcasm is designed to make the target look foolish - it engages the pride, and puts the target in the position of having to take further bruises to the ego to agree with you. Thus, if you are actually trying to improve matters, it is a lousy tool.

Same goes for public outing of cheating, or making a scene of it in front of your whole group. You'd be engaging emotion and ego in a way that would make it less likely for the player to concede to your wishes. They will deny and avoid, rather than be open and honest.

So, if what you want to do is correct the behavior, take the player aside and talk to him or her about it in a non-accusatory way.

 

[avin]

Punch him in the face and... oh, wait...

 

[Goonalan]

Punch him in the face and... oh, wait...

Damn, you beat me to it...

Or else make a joke of it the next time you see it happen, 'Jeez, you hit on a...', or give it the big whoop and high five the guy, just let him know that you know- if it doesn't stop then text/e-mail him whatever and in your nicest words say why do it- but make sure he knows you know before hand.

As a long time DM I've obviously had a bit of this (particularly as I've taught dozens of my friends kids)- I go over the top, not in confrontational way (well actually...) but in 'whoah you guys must be pretty over-powered if you're hitting with...', or 'what are they magic dice- c'mon...' and generally make a big joke of it, then I do a silly voice and move on swiftly- don't dwell on it.

Everyone (I'd like to think) cheats at something every now and then (I should be working right now for instance), I'd hope D&D was important enough for someone to want to cheat.

As to once a 'cheater always a cheater'- that's a simplified world you're living in there buddy... and 3-2-1 you're back in the room (kinda the English version of 'wake up and smell the coffee', or something like that.)

Love Goonalan

 

[the Jester]

As a long time DM I've obviously had a bit of this (particularly as I've taught dozens of my friends kids)- I go over the top, not in confrontational way (well actually...) but in 'whoah you guys must be pretty over-powered if you're hitting with...', or 'what are they magic dice- c'mon...' and generally make a big joke of it, then I do a silly voice and move on swiftly- don't dwell on it.

Everyone (I'd like to think) cheats at something every now and then (I should be working right now for instance), I'd hope D&D was important enough for someone to want to cheat.

You are far more forgiving than I. Different playstyles and all that. It sounds like you accept cheating as a part of the game, which kind of defeats the point in calling it 'cheating.'

At a certain point, if cheating is endemic, the dm may want to take control of the dice and roll them all himself, and if anyone asks why, explain (without naming names). Everyone knows who the cheater is anyway; this course may lead to social pressure on him to get 'dice privileges' back.

 

[Wild Gazebo]

I've cheated because it was a thrill to get away with it. I've cheated because it caused a funny situation. I've cheated for personal gain. I've cheated for the benefit of others. I’ve cheated for dramatic effect. I’ve cheated to prevent cheating.

I find these threads full of useless grandstanding that make people look foolish.

I’m the most honest person I know…almost to the point of ‘Thoreau like’ discomfort. But, I have not always been that way: no one person changed my mind—it is a journey you make yourself.

If this person’s actions are making your experience less enjoyable, do something about it. But, don’t think embarrassment, anger, indignation, or righteousness will pave a new path.

Keep it simple: tell him that when he misrepresents his rolls he steals your thunder. In a game of heroes you are missing out because the sense of dramatic has been stolen from you –because of his actions.

If somebody had said that to me I would have avoided the cheating because I enjoyed the game, the company, and the comradery of the gaming table.

Remember, as much as we think we know what others are thinking…we never do.

He could be cheating for the benefit of the party…he might even assume it is his roll to cheat to keep the party in balance from what he feels is an uneven encounter. I’m not suggesting that this is the case; but, it is a possibility.

 

[Goonalan]

You are far more forgiving than I. Different playstyles and all that. It sounds like you accept cheating as a part of the game, which kind of defeats the point in calling it 'cheating.'

At a certain point, if cheating is endemic, the dm may want to take control of the dice and roll them all himself, and if anyone asks why, explain (without naming names). Everyone knows who the cheater is anyway; this course may lead to social pressure on him to get 'dice privileges' back.

I was talking in particular about when I DM the kids- cheating, and trying to get away with it used to happen all the time, certainly once a week- we're talking about kids aged 8-14. Cheating involves shouting 'Nine... Teen', then grabbing the dice before anyway can see it and grinning like a chimp.

I play every other Sunday with a bunch of guys average age approx. 35-40, I've not noticed the same things happening- although you can check the stats Story Hours in my sig.

As for the kids they cheat at most games they play, and then when they're found out sulk- throw the dice, stomp off, call each other names and are back at the table with a glass of squash in under four minutes. I think I remember doing the same- to see how far I could stretch things.

Steady on Jester, I'm still quietly for punching the guy in the face (in the grown up world), lol.

Cheers Goonalan.