Herores of the Fallen Lands - Are Slayers underpowered?

[Dausuul]

I think the OP's mistake is thinking that slayers are primarily a Str/Con class. They're not. Knights are Str/Con; slayers are Str/Dex, which means they get a big boost from adding Dex to damage.

 

[Otterscrubber]

I've only played the slayer in one test adventure and I was blown away by how effective they are. VERY STRONG damage output, well in line with the thief or any other striker. Good AC, able to stay alive just fine. Simple, dishes out damage and stays up, but that's more than other striker classes.

When I read the tage line for this thread I was surprised and assume you have not actually play tested one. To answer your question though, I do not think a damage bonus is needed as they get more damage bonuses out of the box than any other class I can think of off hand and do not require combat advantage or other circumstances to get it. They just have to hit. The damage bonus was so large during out play test that the weapon choice was irrelevant almost. Our slayer could have been using a dagger and would not have dramatically changed his dps.

 

[Mengu]

Slayers do pretty high damage already. Came up with a somewhat unconventional human greatbow/greatsword with Master at Arms, and melee trainining Dex (to start with 20 dex). At first level, with a bow, in Battle Wrath Stance, the character is attacking at +9 vs AC, 1d10+12 damage, and with a greatsword +10 vs AC, 1d10+9 damage. No conditions attached (don't have to worry about combat advantage, curse, oath, etc). I wear hide, stay at range for the most part, if stuck in melee, I whack it with power strike. Heroic Effort makes me even more accurate. I thought it was a pretty cool character for a one shot.

Starting at mid heroic levels, Half-orc Slayer chargers are putting barbarian chargers to shame, and it gets worse at paragon. Giving slayers a freebie damage bonus sounds like crazy talk.

 

[BobTheNob]

I almost spat my coffee on the screen when I read this post. First time I have heard some call the slayer underpowered

 

[Mithreinmaethor]

If your DM allows for backgrounds that is a good way to get access to train other skills.

And I have seen a ton of Slayers made with Dex based races and using Melee Training Dex. I have even seen an Eladrin and a Githzerai Slayer multiclassed Swordmage to get access to Intelligent Blademaster.

 

[S'mon]

I think the OP's mistake is thinking that slayers are primarily a Str/Con class. They're not. Knights are Str/Con; slayers are Str/Dex, which means they get a big boost from adding Dex to damage.

Yes, the Slayer illustrations are of big tough-looking guys, so I thought 'CON', whereas the designers may have been thinking of skinny anime chicks with enormous weapons (DEX)...

 

[Prestidigitalis]

The damage bonus was so large during out play test that the weapon choice was irrelevant almost. Our slayer could have been using a dagger and would not have dramatically changed his dps.

That has to be hyperbole, right? A Fullblade-wielding Slayer with Dex 10 does as much damage as a Dagger-wielding Slayer with Dex 18, assuming that you aren't talking about the Melee Training (Dexterity) build.

 

[Otterscrubber]

That has to be hyperbole, right? A Fullblade-wielding Slayer with Dex 10 does as much damage as a Dagger-wielding Slayer with Dex 18, assuming that you aren't talking about the Melee Training (Dexterity) build.

Mostly yes, I was just illustrating that the damage bonuses were so significant that the dice of damage from the weapon was just a fraction of the total damage. Obviously a slayer with a big hitter will still do more than one with a dagger or bare hand. Although making a slayer with bare hands would still be plenty on par and fun to play now that I think of it.....

 

[Prestidigitalis]

Mostly yes, I was just illustrating that the damage bonuses were so significant that the dice of damage from the weapon was just a fraction of the total damage.

I guess it depends on what you are adding in -- Weapon Focus, Bracers of Mighty Striking, and a weapon with a larger than usual enhancement (say, +2 at level 4) or one that somehow grants extra damage (Radiant Weapon, Subtle Weapon). Or maybe you mean a charge build with Powerful Charge, a Vanguard Weapon and Horned Helm.

What the Slayer does NOT have access to is a non-class mechanic to double up on an ability, as the hammer-wielding Knight can with Warden MC + Crippling Crush, or the Hunter or Thief can with Seeker MC + Primal Eye. I have wondered whether there might be a way to make a Slayer push/prone build and go with Dragonborn and Iron Vanguard PP, but for all I know it may not be possible.

 

[KarinsDad]

If I were to play a Slayer, I would worry most about the problem that I have with my Knight right now -- virtually no ability to contribute to non-combat situations that don't involve carrying or knocking things down. It gets dreary after a while having every single NPC ignore your character except for slurs and smirks, and never being able to pipe up when there is a lock or trap to finagle, a scouting expedition needing volunteers, a shopkeeper to wrangle, a noble to charm, a trail to follow, a rune to decipher...

It's like going to a big scout gathering and being the only one with no badges on your uniform except the one for good attendance. (Scouts, feel free to explain that gatherings are called "gymborees", that uniforms are called "haversacks", that badges are called "nibnobs" and that there is no nibnob for good attendance. I'm here to learn.)

You should talk to your DM. I don't have only the players with Bluff, Diplomacy, and/or Intimidate talk to NPCs. I have every player at the table contribute. If a player wants to roll Diplomacy or Bluff, that's ok, but social roleplaying is not typically and primarily resolved via social skill rolls when I DM. It's resolved with roleplaying and possibly an occassional roll if the NPC is on the fence on something.

The die roll is for the exception (i.e. gaining an advantage that is difficult to achieve), not for the rule (i.e. talking to someone and interacting normally).

I personally think that too many DMs rely on skill dice rolls instead of relying on common sense and fun. I do the same thing for physical skills sometimes. If the players tell me how they are going to rope their way across a ravine and it makes sense that it would be fairly easy and safe to do it that way, I don't bother with dice rolls. Any party can manage it. The players already solved that problem, move on.