Help Challenging Tank PCs

[redboxrazor]

Hey everyone,

I am running the first session of the Serpent's Skull adventure path on Sunday, and one of my players has created what seems to be a very high-power inquisitor.

He took the Rich Parents trait (start with 900 GP) and a trait from the SS Player's Guide (I forgot the name) which gives him some poison resistances. All in all, his AC is very high, he can cast healing spells, his judgments allow him to turn the tide of battle (I'm concerned about him boosting his already-high AC), and his starting gold gives him access to a breastplate and a masterwork weapon.

Looking over the stats of the monsters in the adventure, it seems like nothing will really be able to hit his character. I fear that I won't be able to challenge him without upping the stakes against the rest of the party. I am going to be tracking weather, heat/fatigue, starvation, and the like, to hopefully help wear the party down a bit and encourage intelligent play, but I just can't figure out how I can pose a threat to what is essentially a striker, tank, and healer all in one.

Please help!

The rest of the party consists of a Druid (healer w/ wolf companion), a wizard, and a Paladin, all at level 1.

 

[Celtavian]

re

Inquisitors are a pretty tough class. Only going to get worse as he levels.

I hope you don't boost the monsters too much to the detriment of the other party members.

Probably want to make a few key encounters with enemies to challenge the Inquisitor. Or maybe don't worry about it so much in the first module. The Inquisitor should balance out gear wise as the path progresses.

 

[SkredlitheOgre]

My first question would be at what level is the Inquisitor starting? Because if he's first level, while he does have the spell ability, he only has one Judgment, so while it may turn the tide of one encounter, you can always add more encounters, since the Inquisitor can use the Judgment ability once per day and they only work while the Inquisitor participates in combat. If he uses it on the first combat and a second combat comes up (randomly or otherwise) then he can't use it again (until 4th level, anyway).

Secondly, does he have a high Reflex save? If not, it would be possible to add in something that has an area attack, maybe another scavenger from the tidepools. Then there's Captain Kinkarian, who has a touch attack, which means the Inquisitor's high AC isn't necessarily going to protect him. You could always make up your own random encounter tables with monsters that either have area attacks or touch attacks.

In terms of magical healing, unless you're going to hand out (or the party has bought) healing potions, it's going to fall to the Inquisitor to heal people, as the Druid doesn't have access to many spells. If it comes down to it, the Inquisitor either has to heal or possibly earn the wrath of the party (not to mention the player getting an earful from the other players).

In combat, if you want him to take damage, there's always roll fudging. I'm not saying kill him outright, but the occasional critical hit (if that's what it takes) will show him that he's not invincible. Plus, you could always houserule that a surprise round for the enemy doesn't count as "participating in combat," so he doesn't get bonuses from his Judgement.

If you're really worried about not challenging him without overwhelming the rest of the party, then don't worry about hitting him directly. Put the rest of the party in danger, especially the other healer and make him use his abilities to keep his partners alive.

Just my thoughts, anyway.

 

[redboxrazor]

Celtavian - That's what I'm worried about. He seems to become wildly powerful as he grows in level. It's a little extra work, but I'll have to figure out some encounters that put him on the spot.

SkredlitheOgre - Thanks for the advice. There are some really good ideas in your reply. I'm gonna have to do a bit of research so that I don't create balance issues for the rest of the party.

All - Are there any specific tactics you would recommend for "normal" monsters when dealing with an inquisitor? For instance, I've read a few different sources that suggest monsters using 'Aid Another' to hit - but that seems like bad action economy to me. Grappling/pinning, perhaps?

 

[Glade Riven]

Steal his character sheet and make a copy. Have him fight himself.

Remember, anything the players use/abuse, so can you.

 

[thundershot]

Steal his character sheet and make a copy. Have him fight himself.

Remember, anything the players use/abuse, so can you.

I did that back in 2E with a mirror of opposition (I think that's the one) and one of the more powerful PC's had his opposite try to kill him. Whatever happened, the clone followed them everywhere and became a recurring villain. Eventually he was around for so long that he started becoming his own person and became an ally of the party, even though he still hated his opposite.

Even to this day, the phrase "magic mirrors, evil clones, happens to everyone" comes up.

 

[Mojo_Rat]

I'n the future I would suggest banning the rich parents trait. or say only allowing it with a 3 page character essay. no one in our group has ever taken it so it has never come up.

that said. introduce series of separate encounters. inquisitors really benefit from the 15 minute workday. so 4 encounters a day will really push his spells and judgements.

 

[concerro]

Hey everyone,

I am running the first session of the Serpent's Skull adventure path on Sunday, and one of my players has created what seems to be a very high-power inquisitor.

He took the Rich Parents trait (start with 900 GP) and a trait from the SS Player's Guide (I forgot the name) which gives him some poison resistances. All in all, his AC is very high, he can cast healing spells, his judgments allow him to turn the tide of battle (I'm concerned about him boosting his already-high AC), and his starting gold gives him access to a breastplate and a masterwork weapon.

Looking over the stats of the monsters in the adventure, it seems like nothing will really be able to hit his character. I fear that I won't be able to challenge him without upping the stakes against the rest of the party. I am going to be tracking weather, heat/fatigue, starvation, and the like, to hopefully help wear the party down a bit and encourage intelligent play, but I just can't figure out how I can pose a threat to what is essentially a striker, tank, and healer all in one.

Please help!

The rest of the party consists of a Druid (healer w/ wolf companion), a wizard, and a Paladin, all at level 1.

Every character has a weakness. What is his AC and saves?

Also what is the rest of the party doing?

 

[pming]

Hiya.

My suggestion? Let him kick ass. The player obviously thought it'd be fun to have a character like this. He has a high AC because the player wants him to be hard to hit in combat and all that. Let him enjoy it. In the long haul of a campaign, it will all balance out.

I dont' understand this newfangled attitude that GM's are supposed to have...where the GM has to "balance" a encounter so that everyone in the group has a 50/50 chance. Yeah, call me old (ok, so I am a bit old...that's ok...I've been doing this RPG thing for longer than a lot of folks on these boards have been alive), but in my day the DM was there to be neutral and run the world. Presenting game-logical situations, encounters, etc., and let the players figure out what to do about them. Fight? Parlay? Flee? All totally viable options back in the day.

Anyway, if a player can make an "unbeatable" character at level one, that will pretty much stay unbeatable as he advances...the rules are screwed. It has *nothing* to do with the player. Fix the rules, not the player. That said, I'd just let him do his thing and have fun. As long as the players are ALL having fun, great. If the player starts to get all cocky and starts picking fights with obviously 'tough' creatures (knowing he'll be ok...everyone else might die...but hey...as long as his character lives...). Well, then it's time to toss in a "grudge monster" (to use Hackmaster parlance); say...a rust monster. Or maybe a wraithe or spectre. Ooo...green slime! Always a crowd pleaser! ... ... But, untl he gets all cocky and whatnot...if everyone's having fun, go with it and don't punish the player for using the rules....just fix the rules so next time it doesn't happen.

^_^

Paul L. Ming

 

[redboxrazor]

Transbot9- Indeed. : )

Mojo_Rat - Not bad advice. I'm starting to think that it's not going to be a huge deal in the long run, though. I suppose once the party is able to come by 900+ GP on a regular basis, 'Rich Parents' will have become a wasted trait for the player who took it. It doesn't seem to have any long-term benefits... So he's got a +1 to hit for now, and later... nothing to show for it. Took me awhile to think of it in those terms.

I agree that I need to find a way to deal with the 15-minute adventuring day. I think the setting takes care of that - food is hard to come by, and it's dangerous in the jungle at night... Can't afford to sit around too often. Plus, I hear there are ghosts on the shore... ; )

Concerro - His reflex save is rather low. I don't really want to punish him for having a strong character, but I'm curious at to how other DMs run their non-spellcasting monsters in combat to deal with such a foe.

Pming - You make a good point. I simply don't have enough experience DM'ing Pathfinder to know if this is going to be an issue or not. For all I know, the rules may in fact be messed up. It just seems like this one character is going to outshine the rest of the party for a long time, and I'm not entirely sure that the player would enjoy a game where every encounter is a walk in the park. I'll have to wait and see how it plays out for a bit before I make any changes.

Specifically, I was looking for some advice on combat tactics more than anything. Perhaps I should have clarified that sooner, but I'm interested in different ways that already-existing creatures would choose to attack a heavily-armored opponent.

I could be reacting too strongly, so I appreciate your perspective.