Casters Suck? Please explain.

[The Human Target]

So, I now understand that the Monk cannot use her +3 Prof with Unarmed on her attacks. That puts her on par with me. It makes since because she doesn't attack AC, just like I do not attack AC.

When is a monster's Reflex so much different from AC to warrant the serious lack of attack bonus for implement users?

Pretty much all of the time, a Monsters NADs should be 2 points lower than their AC at least.

There are many monsters that intentionally break this design. A fast artillery or skirmisher may have a Reflex thats equal too or higher than its AC. Same with a Controller and its Will, or a Brute and its Fortitude.

Part of 4Es tactical strategy is mixing the right attack against the right defense/monster.

To hit anything last night I had to roll at least a 10. I suppose I am just bitter! I only hit once in each of the 4 encounters.

I just know that I had the same issue as my Wizard in the first 4e campaign I ever played.

Like Incenjucar said, thats pretty much right on the money. 4E has a lot of attack bonuses and things that try and conceal the fact that at a given level 10 or better is a hit and 9 or less is a miss. Again, there is a lot of wiggle room there but thats the basic math of the system.

You're doing fine mathematically at least. Once the other party members straighten out their seemingly wrong attacks you should feel better.

 

[Miio]

This is how the game is designed. Roughly a 55% chance to hit unless you work at it by getting combat advantage or other bonuses.

Keep in mind that you can probably get like a +13 to hit every round with certain class/race combos and combat advantage.

Combat advantage with spells? Tell me how I can do this.

Melee classes get higher attack bonuses and can easily get CA.

I do not like that I have to work extra hard to hit something simply because I chose to be a caster. Is that supposed to be balanced because I should get hit less often? I got down to 4 HP twice in one encounter and less than that one time in the other 3 encounters. My HP is 31 and my AC is 18. Blah!!

Edit: I am a Dwarf Cleric. How is it that I can get this +13 to hit?

 

[bganon]

A monster's weakest NAD is typically at least 3 lower than AC, in some cases 5 or more lower than AC (often soldiers). So with some strategic choice of targets, a "caster's" lower attack bonus compared to a fighter's is more than compensated for.

 

[Miio]

Like Incenjucar said, thats pretty much right on the money. 4E has a lot of attack bonuses and things that try and conceal the fact that at a given level 10 or better is a hit and 9 or less is a miss. Again, there is a lot of wiggle room there but thats the basic math of the system.

You're doing fine mathematically at least. Once the other party members straighten out their seemingly wrong attacks you should feel better.

Then we can all miss horribly together? We are a party of 3 implement users. No one targets AC. That should be balanced according to most of the posts in this thread, but I can't help but feel we are just going to be epic fail unless we power game the crap out of our characters and go strictly for attack bonuses.

I feel defeated. I will play 2 more games as my cleric, and then I am going to reroll as a Paladin.

 

[Incenjucar]

Non-strikers should have to work about as hard for a % chance to hit as you do. Strikers usually get an advantage to hit, because they're strikers.

For burst or blast powers, you can take the Coordinated Explosion feat for a +1 to hit if one or more of your allies is in the attack radius, and ON TOP OF THAT, you can get the Distant Advantage feat to gain combat advantage when using ranged or area spells against any enemy flanked by your allies.

So if you drop an Area attack on someone flanked by your allies, and the allies are in the area of effect, that's a +3 to hit right there.

You can also take Impending Victory to get an additional +1 vs. bloodied enemies when you use at-wills.

If you used thunder and lightning powers, you could take Oncoming Storm for ANOTHER +1 bonus every time you use a thunder power after using a lightning power.

 

[Holy Bovine]

Combat advantage with spells? Tell me how I can do this.

Distant Advantage I think it is called. A feat that allows you to get CA if a creature is currently granting it due to being flanked and/or other effects. Nearly every implement/ranged user I have ever seen has picked up this feat eventually.

Melee classes get higher attack bonuses and can easily get CA.

I do not like that I have to work extra hard to hit something simply because I chose to be a caster. Is that supposed to be balanced because I should get hit less often? I got down to 4 HP twice in one encounter and less than that one time in the other 3 encounters. My HP is 31 and my AC is 18. Blah!!

Then your defenders are sucking at their job (or you are sucking at yours - any controller worth his weight can ensure no critter gets within 10 feet of him). Casters are squishy and always have been.

 

[Miio]

Distant Advantage I think it is called. A feat that allows you to get CA if a creature is currently granting it due to being flanked and/or other effects. Nearly every implement/ranged user I have ever seen has picked up this feat eventually.


Then your defenders are sucking at their job (or you are sucking at yours - any controller worth his weight can ensure no critter gets within 10 feet of him). Casters are squishy and always have been.

First of all, we lack a defender and a controller in our group. I am a cleric, therefore I am a Leader. No one is sucking at their intended role.

 

[interwyrm]

At second level, my wizard sits at +8 vs. will. (+5 int, +1 staff expertise, +1 accurate staff, +1 1/2 level.)

If we actually had magic items yet, it would be +10 (+2 from a +1 staff of sleep and charm).

Even as is, I typically hit on a roll of 5 or better.

 

[MrMyth]

To hit anything last night I had to roll at least a 10. I suppose I am just bitter! I only hit once in each of the 4 encounters.

I just know that I had the same issue as my Wizard in the first 4e campaign I ever played.

And, honestly, it might just be you have bad luck. If you need at least a 10 to hit... you are still hitting (in theory) more than half the time. If that isn't the case, you might just have had a bad string of rolling low.

It does sound like the other characters may have been playing incorrectly. It is also possible that, because they were more powerful than normal, the DM may have been using tougher enemies, which would indirectly hurt you. Or that he just uses enemies in general whose Non-AC defenses are higher than normal.

Either way, I wouldn't give up hope yet. You might want to look for feats that help you hit more often, or powers that can do so - stuff that dazes enemies or makes them grant combat advantage, for example, or gives you and your allies bonuses to hit.

Even then, you won't hit every time. And if your dice always roll in single digits, even the best character in the world will only go so far!

 

[Holy Bovine]

Then we can all miss horribly together? We are a party of 3 implement users. No one targets AC. That should be balanced according to most of the posts in this thread, but I can't help but feel we are just going to be epic fail unless we power game the crap out of our characters and go strictly for attack bonuses.

I feel defeated. I will play 2 more games as my cleric, and then I am going to reroll as a Paladin.

"Well there's yer problem" /Adam Savage

You can't seriously expect a party of 3 (Monk, Sorcerer and Cleric(?) I think you said) to have a hope of doing well. All of you will get the stuffing beaten out of you by the first 'hard' target that comes along (hobgoblin soldiers would make short work of you I think). One of the strikers has got to go - a nice sticky fighter would work wonders for your group. If you (as the Cleric(?)) drop out to make a Paladin I think your problems will only increase.