Pathfinder 1E Should LPJ Design increase their writers pay rate to 4 cents a word on a Pathfinder p

[lmpjr007]

This is something I stared in Facebook page and LPJ Design blog that I thought should be brought here: I am thinking about doing a Pathfinder project and paying out 4 cents a word for writers. That is A LOT more than I normally pay (Remember small PDF publisher here). Am I crazy to think like this? I am looking to hear from the Pathfinder and Paizo fans on this.

 

[Morrus]

Why would Pathfinder fans have any insight into your business accounts? You're seriously asking for advice like this on a messageboard?

I'd say this is a matter solely for you and a spreadsheet application, unless you're planning on publishing your detailed accounts here.

 

[ThatGuyThere]

Why would Pathfinder fans have any insight into your business accounts? You're seriously asking for advice like this on a messageboard?

Off the top of my head, because this board is stuffed to the gills with freelancers, PDF publishers, and gamers, all of whom might offer valuable insights into the process? He's not crowdsourcing the decision, he's asking for thoughts / insights.

I would politely request that you look at the tone of your above post, and consider it may not be contributing to an environment friendly to open discussion and conversation.

 

[Morrus]

Off the top of my head, because this board is stuffed to the gills with freelancers, PDF publishers, and gamers, all of whom might offer valuable insights into the process? He's not crowdsourcing the decision, he's asking for thoughts / insights.

The most important factor is his own accounts, which we're not privy to.

I think that 4-cents per word being "a LOT more than usual" sounds awful, but I chose not to say so; and I think that a lot of the time you get what you pay for with exceptions that we can't predict here.

I would politely request that you look at the tone of your above post, and consider it may not be contributing to an environment friendly to open discussion and conversation.

I think it was an excellent piece of advice. The very best piece of advice I could give him - crunch the accounts, look at sales figures, and pay what generates more profits. We're not privy to those accounts, so I can't possibly offer anything more helpful than that.

He's a businessman.

(That's not mentioning the fact that this is a two-line post which has been copy/pasted on multiple sites, which leads to a blog entry which has nothing but the exact same two lines. There's absolutely no information to go on; any suggestions other than "crunch your accounts" would be irresponsible, IMO).

 

[Wicht]

I think that 4-cents per word being "a LOT more than usual" sounds awful, but I chose not to say so; and I think that a lot of the time you get what you pay for with exceptions that we can't predict here.

2 cents a word seems pretty standard for small publishers. So 4 cents a word is basically double. Even if 3 cents is typical, its still a 30% increase or so, which is nothing to sneeze at.

I think one thing to consider is the question of what value does increasing the pay rate add to the product.

As a writer, I would love it if all small publishers moved to 4 cents a word, standard. As a consumer, the art budget would probably be what I would like to see focused on first.

 

[ThatGuyThere]

As a writer, I would love it if all small publishers moved to 4 cents a word, standard. As a consumer, the art budget would probably be what I would like to see focused on first.

For what it's worth, I have the completely opposite view. But I accept I'm the absolute minority.

IF (and I accept, it's a HUGE if) more pay for werdz results in prettier words with better-thought-out and / or more interesting rules mechanics behind / within them, THEN I'd think you should pay more for those words.

But I'm also more old-school than my gaming tastes might indicate; evocative black-and-white imagery, combined with the occasional cartoon, are my primary artwork desires in PDF content. In 75% or more of RPG books, the illustrations exist secondarially as artwork - and primarally to help me find the page I'm looking for ("No, Feats are before the Skeletons-Attacking-Barbarians picture...").

Not that I dislike art, or that the art shouldn't be of good-or-better quality (bad drawings are still bad). But I'm willing to buy and use products with bad art. I'm not willing to buy or use products with bad words.

Uh.

Badly <used> words. Some bad words might be okay, uh, in context, and all.

 

[Wicht]

IF (and I accept, it's a HUGE if) more pay for werdz results in prettier words with better-thought-out and / or more interesting rules mechanics behind / within them, THEN I'd think you should pay more for those words..

The question though is whether it results in prettier words. As a writer, I would like to think I would do good work regardless.

That being said, if the publishers begin making more off of your work, and you have legitimate name recognition, then I think it fair to expect them to pay accordingly. But small publishers are small publishers and this is not, for the most part, a big money industry, even if you produce good work.

What I guess I am trying to say is that just because a publisher advertises a higher rate of pay - it does not necessarily follow that they will gain a higher caliber of writer (the freelance field is fairly small too, from what I can tell); though on the other hand, higher standard pay may enable more people to devote a greater amount of time to the effort.

It all goes back to how well a product is going to sell and how much the publisher can afford.

 

[Morrus]

The question though is whether it results in prettier words. As a writer, I would like to think I would do good work regardless.

It's not that pay and quality directly correlate all the time. But an established writer comes with a reputation, and can charge more because you know in advance that the work is good.

A new writer? It's a gamble, even if they provide you with a sample. So a new writer will earn correspondingly less.

If I can find a new writer who will charge peanuts who I can guarantee will turn in a manuscript of Monte Cook's standard, then I've hit the jackpot. But with a new writer, you're dealing with an unknown quantity, and thus a risk.

As an example - Ryan Nock is being paid much more by ENP for ZEITGEIST than he was for War of the Burning Sky. This is solely because of WotBS's quality and success. The end result has been proven - as much as it can - and he's in a position where he can say to me "Russ, I'll write your new AP for you, but it'll cost you more than the last one". I then decide whether I want to g the cheap route and take a gamble, or pay for the security and known quantity that is the writer whose work has been very good to me over the years.

I went with Ryan without a second thought.

 

[ThatGuyThere]

If I can find a new writer who will charge peanuts who I can guarantee will turn in a manuscript of Monte Cook's standard, then I've hit the jackpot. But with a new writer, you're dealing with an unknown quantity, and thus a risk.

Well, there's the question, then.

Is it, "Should I pay the 'usual gang of idiots' more money?". If that's the question, I - and I suspect, most here - are pretty unqualified to answer it (except maybe diehard LPJ fans).

Is it, "Should I hire a better gang of idiots?", we can discuss writing versus layout versus art, an interesting conversation that can go many ways.

Or is it, "If I up my freelance rate, do you think that would attract better writers, or produce better product?". Because this can be an interesting conversation, too - albeit, one I'm not really qualified for.

I've bought two LPJ products in the past, re-writes of the OGL sections of the Kingmaker adventure path. Rules were excellent, but that was Paizo; the writing was... ... ...let's go with "non-intuitive". But the material was interesting, and I'm probably willing to buy from them again.

So, if you're asking me, "Should I pay my writers more", I'd tend to say "No"*, sorry. If you're asking, "Should I try to get better writers", my answer is yes - but I'd answer that to every RPG company and every RPG book I've ever read**.


* - Note that I said above I was unqualified to give this answer. I stand by that statement.
** - Alright, not literally <every>. But certainly <most>.

 

[nedjer]

4c/ word, LMAO so hard it hurts

Presumably you're after top quality and all the rights for such a princely sum. That'd be $400 for 10,000 words - no residuals. No, no stop, I'm in pain here.

If you're a writer just don't accept this kind of nonsense. Let alone 2c. Your average sheep can publish to Kindle at 30% profit share. If the product's worth a damn you'll get more than $400. If it's not worth a damn; why didn't you work that out in the first place.