Pathfinder 1E Should LPJ Design increase their writers pay rate to 4 cents a word on a Pathfinder p

[Fifth Element]

So, though I sell artwork separately, should I start to sell anything RPG I will at no stage have it even cross my mind to compromise on quality.

That depends on what you mean by compromising on quality. Would you refuse to sell an RPG product unless you were certain that it was the best RPG product ever? Or, as long as it meets a certain minimum standard of quality, would you sell it?

Perhaps you're not used to making such judgments since you are not in the business of selling RPGs. If you refused to sell a product until you were absolutely certain that it was the best it will ever be, you are throwing away profit, both from the timing of sales and from resources invested into it. If that's how you want to operate, that's fine, but you can't expect other businesses to do the same.

You would have your own standards as to how much profit from the business is enough, and everyone else has their own. To expect everyone to share the same goals and perspectives is silly. You might put much more emphasis on (what you perceive as) quality, while others value other things. It's like choosing an RPG to play: we all have our preferences, and suggesting that everyone should like the same thing is bizarre.

 

[nedjer]

Over the last couple of years I've done per word and I've done royalties (in this business it tends to be either/or). They both have their upsides, but doing the royalties does allow a writer to realize just how many of a given book gets sold. From my admittedly limited experience with some of the numbers involved, I would guess most 3pp paying 2 cents a word flat are paying a reasonable wage for the profits involved. The more successful franchises can probably, after building an audience, afford 3-4 cents. Royalties, on the other hand, are probably actually cheaper for a publisher testing the waters, as there is less money upfront and the royalties can end up actually coming out, in some cases, to less than a penny a word, depending on how many words were written and how much the book sells.

I'm Spartacus!

 

[nedjer]

That depends on what you mean by compromising on quality. Would you refuse to sell an RPG product unless you were certain that it was the best RPG product ever? Or, as long as it meets a certain minimum standard of quality, would you sell it?

Perhaps you're not used to making such judgments since you are not in the business of selling RPGs. If you refused to sell a product until you were absolutely certain that it was the best it will ever be, you are throwing away profit, both from the timing of sales and from resources invested into it. If that's how you want to operate, that's fine, but you can't expect other businesses to do the same.

You would have your own standards as to how much profit from the business is enough, and everyone else has their own. To expect everyone to share the same goals and perspectives is silly. You might put much more emphasis on (what you perceive as) quality, while others value other things. It's like choosing an RPG to play: we all have our preferences, and suggesting that everyone should like the same thing is bizarre.

I'm kind of out there on the quality front. You're a couple of sig clicks away from my content and welcome to make up your own mind whether or not my idea of what just about cuts the mustard is comparable to yours

I don't see choosing an RPG as analogous to making business decisions; but anyone who wants to sign up for low wages and a diet of cabbage and fish-eye soup is wholly entitled to do so.

 

[Morrus]

Over the last couple of years I've done per word and I've done royalties (in this business it tends to be either/or). They both have their upsides, but doing the royalties does allow a writer to realize just how many of a given book gets sold. From my admittedly limited experience with some of the numbers involved, I would guess most 3pp paying 2 cents a word flat are paying a reasonable wage for the profits involved. The more successful franchises can probably, after building an audience, afford 3-4 cents. Royalties, on the other hand, are probably actually cheaper for a publisher testing the waters, as there is less money upfront and the royalties can end up actually coming out, in some cases, to less than a penny a word, depending on how many words were written and how much the book sells.

I refuse point-blank to do royalties. To me, royalties means "You will be writing hundreds of cheques for a pittance each every month for the rest of your natural days!"

You'd have to pay me a hell of a lot to spend my time doing that!

Nah, work-for-hire, one payment, at a good rate (and from this thread, it appears that ENP is pretty darn competitive in its payment levels!) That's my way, and it ain't gonna change!

 

[pawsplay]

This is something I stared in Facebook page and LPJ Design blog that I thought should be brought here: I am thinking about doing a Pathfinder project and paying out 4 cents a word for writers. That is A LOT more than I normally pay (Remember small PDF publisher here). Am I crazy to think like this? I am looking to hear from the Pathfinder and Paizo fans on this.

That seems like it would be really nice to me. The problem is that depending on how writing-heavy the product is, it may not turn a profit. Now, I think the market is headed that way. The question is, do you think this product is going to be the icebreaker? Or the next one, or the one after?

Speaking as a writer and self-publisher, the number that would me to consider writing for someone else, meaning that my own projects would go on the back burner, is probably 5 cents/word. But on the flip side, the number that would probably get me to start looking for cheaper, less-experienced talent, and perhaps spending more time in development, is 2.5 cents/word. Because I would probably budget for a 300 copy sales run in the first six months.

4 cents/word is a good "in-between" figure; someone who is not already busy might jump at it. Is it better than 3 cents? Worse? Don't know.

A top selling Pathfinder product by a small company can sell, oh, 300 to 1000 copies at this point. I think there is a lot of room to grow that market, but the market is not yet growed, I think.

 

[Morrus]

A top selling Pathfinder product by a small company can sell, oh, 300 to 1000 copies at this point.

That's a hell of a range. Man, if Pathfinder ZEITGEIST only sells 300 copies, I'm gonna regret that decision big-style!

 

[Fifth Element]

I don't see choosing an RPG as analogous to making business decisions; but anyone who wants to sign up for low wages and a diet of cabbage and fish-eye soup is wholly entitled to do so.

It's analagous to any decision that involves personal value judgments.

Can a writer live on 2 cents a word? I suspect not. By why are you assuming they have to? It could be one of many assignment they're writing, it could be more of a hobby business for them, it could be any number of things. That's why each individual writer makes the decision whether the rate being offered is sufficient. A writer who needs to live off of his writer will probably reject the assignment for 2 cents a word. But not all writers will, or should.

I've written RPG stuff for less than 2 cents a word, and I've never eaten cabbage soup. I found the rate quite acceptable, given the assignment and my position. So it was an easy decision, and deriding those who make decisions based on their personal value judgments is (I'm running out of descriptions) ... misguided?

 

[Fifth Element]

I refuse point-blank to do royalties. To me, royalties means "You will be writing hundreds of cheques for a pittance each every month for the rest of your natural days!"

A very valid point. I did some writing for royalties once, and after a few months I was getting payments of $0.87 a month or whatever. I eventually contacted the published and rescinded my right to future royalties, because it just wasn't worth the trouble anymore. I can only imagine the fuss the publisher had to go through with these mutitudinous micro-payments.

 

[ThatGuyThere]

As a not-yet-employed, interested-in-someday-freelancer (freelancing? ... youknowwhatImean), I've found this revealing.

Would the rate of pay vary if there was research work (or design work) involved? For instance, would you pay more for "crunch" (particularly "good crunch" that had been playtested)? Or for "historically accurate 15th century" content?

 

[nedjer]

It's analagous to any decision that involves personal value judgments.

Can a writer live on 2 cents a word? I suspect not. By why are you assuming they have to? It could be one of many assignment they're writing, it could be more of a hobby business for them, it could be any number of things. That's why each individual writer makes the decision whether the rate being offered is sufficient. A writer who needs to live off of his writer will probably reject the assignment for 2 cents a word. But not all writers will, or should.

I've written RPG stuff for less than 2 cents a word, and I've never eaten cabbage soup. I found the rate quite acceptable, given the assignment and my position. So it was an easy decision, and deriding those who make decisions based on their personal value judgments is (I'm running out of descriptions) ... misguided?

Within a couple of posts you've questioned every value judgement I might ever make, assumed I know nothing about e-commerce, tried to devalue my comments based on that; plus insisted that I'm trying to foist my views on others ,eh, and 'silly' on the basis of a false premise that you introduced?

Have a word with yourself