Pathfinder 1E Should LPJ Design increase their writers pay rate to 4 cents a word on a Pathfinder p

[Morrus]

As a not-yet-employed, interested-in-someday-freelancer (freelancing? ... youknowwhatImean), I've found this revealing.

Would the rate of pay vary if there was research work (or design work) involved? For instance, would you pay more for "crunch" (particularly "good crunch" that had been playtested)? Or for "historically accurate 15th century" content?

I can't speak for anyone else, but yes - ENP's per-word rate may well vary depending on the complexity of the article.

Generally, we tend to use rpgFREELANCER.com these days, and let prospective freelancers submit their own prices. Then we choose one - and to date we have *never* chosen the cheapest one.

 

[Morrus]

I don't see choosing an RPG as analogous to making business decisions; but anyone who wants to sign up for low wages and a diet of cabbage and fish-eye soup is wholly entitled to do so.

This may be where the disconnect is.

It's not a wage; it's payment for one job. Someone who does it *full time* and actually uses that as his salary is going to develop a - hopefully impressive - resume and reputation comparitively rapidly, and will be charging far more for his services. Someone who writes a 2000 word article once every six months is not.

It's kinda self-regulating that way. The people on the low rates are the same people who aren't living on those rates. The people who are making a living doing it (and, to be fair, there aren't many people able to do that - partly because it's a tiny niche industry and the money simply doesn't exist, and partly because that requires a skillset [speed, reliability, dedication, accuracy, availability] that many prospective freelancers simply don't have - they may have one or two of those things, but they need them all).

Many writers mistake the primary resource as "being able to write cool stuff"; in fact the primary resource needed to make a living doing this is "being able to produce manuscripts repeatedly to specification and deadline with high reliability". Most of the publishers can write the cool stuff themselves - that's not the resource they're lacking. The resource they're lacking is the reliable work ethic and avoidance of high-maintenance artistes.

Writers are ten-a-penny; reliable freelancers are a rare, rare breed.

 

[nedjer]

I'll attempt to get off any high horses and pitch it differently.

Tonight I'm fortunate enough to have a Morello Cherry Frangipane Tart for dessert. (Just this once that's not a euphemism for my wife).

IMO RPGs should, in so far as possible, be more Morello Cherry Frangipane Tart and less Empire Biscuit.

So, is your next product MCFT or what?

 

[pawsplay]

A very valid point. I did some writing for royalties once, and after a few months I was getting payments of $0.87 a month or whatever. I eventually contacted the published and rescinded my right to future royalties, because it just wasn't worth the trouble anymore. I can only imagine the fuss the publisher had to go through with these mutitudinous micro-payments.

"Yeah, I was wondering if we chould change the payout sceme to quarterly-... centurily?"

 

[nedjer]

This may be where the disconnect is.

It's not a wage; it's payment for one job. Someone who does it *full time* and actually uses that as his salary is going to develop a - hopefully impressive - resume and reputation comparitively rapidly, and will be charging far more for his services. Someone who writes a 2000 word article once every six months is not.

It's kinda self-regulating that way. The people on the low rates are the same people who aren't living on those rates. The people who are making a living doing it (and, to be fair, there aren't many people able to do that - partly because it's a tiny niche industry and the money simply doesn't exist, and partly because that requires a skillset [speed, reliability, dedication, accuracy, availability] that many prospective freelancers simply don't have - they may have one or two of those things, but they need them all).

Many writers mistake the primary resource as "being able to write cool stuff"; in fact the primary resource needed to make a living doing this is "being able to produce manuscripts repeatedly to specification and deadline with high reliability". Most of the publishers can write the cool stuff themselves - that's not the resource they're lacking. The resource they're lacking is the reliable work ethic and avoidance of high-maintenance artistes.

Writers are ten-a-penny; reliable freelancers are a rare, rare breed.

I get it's not a wage, but I see practical benefits for all in raising expectations and options.

Take a product like your forthcoming Pathfinder add-on. A kick-in annual royalty deal for the art and content, with a crowdsourced pre-sales campaign - looks like risks removed, everyone's in on the marketing, up-front costs gone and smiles all round if it does better than expected?

 

[ThatGuyThere]

In film (different industry, blah blah blah) a portion of the film's gross is rare nowadays. Even big-name artists (generally) don't get it.

The possibilities are (1) nobody asks for it, and (2) nobody's worth it.

It seems, Nedjer, you're suggesting that a suitably-modest percentage of the profits - say, 1%? - from a PDF product is worth <more> than $ 400.

That would mean you're anticipating that product making $ 40,000. While I'm admittedly not in RPG sales, that figure - for the average not-bad-but-not-great PDF seems ... optimistic.

And I'm certain that numbers greater than 1% make a significant difference in profitability of the venture, in the end.

Edit - At $ 2.50profit a copy, that's 16,000 copies. Yeah, that seems optimistic, from a not-in-any-way-in-the-industry perspective.

 

[nedjer]

In film (different industry, blah blah blah) a portion of the film's gross is rare nowadays. Even big-name artists (generally) don't get it.

The possibilities are (1) nobody asks for it, and (2) nobody's worth it.

It seems, Nedjer, you're suggesting that a suitably-modest percentage of the profits - say, 1%? - from a PDF product is worth <more> than $ 400.

That would mean you're anticipating that product making $ 40,000. While I'm admittedly not in RPG sales, that figure - for the average not-bad-but-not-great PDF seems ... optimistic.

And I'm certain that numbers greater than 1% make a significant difference in profitability of the venture, in the end.

Edit - At $ 2.50profit a copy, that's 16,000 copies. Yeah, that seems optimistic, from a not-in-any-way-in-the-industry perspective.

Amazon does 30% to the author, a book publisher usually does royalties of 12-15%. Where I'm confused here is what the publishers are contributing? A set up like ENWorld is pretty substantial; so there's commissioning, admin, community, bandwidth and a brand - i.e. Morrus sells a technology and business infrastructure. But how many of the 2c set ups are offering that level of support and distribution 'payback'?

 

[lmpjr007]

Amazon does 30% to the author, a book publisher usually does royalties of 12-15%. Where I'm confused here is what the publishers are contributing? A set up like ENWorld is pretty substantial; so there's commissioning, admin, community, bandwidth and a brand - i.e. Morrus sells a technology and business infrastructure. But how many of the 2c set ups are offering that level of support and distribution 'payback'?

Just wondering but how many sales do you think a typical RPG PDF get?

 

[Wicht]

Where I'm confused here is what the publishers are contributing?

Publishers provide the writers with editors, layout, artists, distribution and promotion.

 

[Morrus]

Take a product like your forthcoming Pathfinder add-on. A kick-in annual royalty deal for the art and content, with a crowdsourced pre-sales campaign - looks like risks removed, everyone's in on the marketing, up-front costs gone and smiles all round if it does better than expected?

We don't work on smiles and idealism, we work on solid business plans, spreadsheets, and reaistic projections.

If we don't, we end up going away. That's why you're able to post here.