Shield vs. Two Weapons vs. Big Axe

[ferratus]

When you fight with two weapons, you generally get two attacks. Unfortunately, this generally is overpowering, as having two attacks was always a better option than having a slight shield bonus or a slight damage bonus (half strength) from an two-handed weapon.

What is the best boost to AC for a Shield, or the best boost to damage for a two weapon attack? I don't mind a shield wielder becoming a tank, or for a two weapon fighter to destroy what he hits. I'm just wondering what the ideal balance is.

 

[the Jester]

What system are you talking about? Different systems handle it all very differently.

 

[ferratus]

A system where you roll a D20, and hit a static Armour Class defense. Two weapon fighting would roll the D20 twice. Armour will be anywhere from +1 to +8 for armour worn, +1 to +4 for dexterity, and a shield bonus determined by this question. Shield bonuses will probably also boost a reflex defense.

It's a homebrew version of D&D that borrows from all editions, but most attacks will be basic attack/damage for the sake of combat speed.

 

[the Jester]

I'd recommend, in addition to whatever else, reducing the accuracy on the two weapon attacks.

A second attack is a huge advantage.

 

[ferratus]

See, that's what D&D has traditionally done, but I'd rather just boost the shield fighter and the two-handed fighter to match.

For example, I don't mind if a shield is half of a guy's armour class, or a way for someone in chain + shield to be as well armoured as someone in plate.

 

[Crothian]

Then make shiled offer a better bonus to AC and other aditions (like the ability to punch with the shield perhaps). For the two handed fighter increase the damage even more so twice their strength bonus or something like that.

Also, one thing that would help the shield and 2 handed fighter would be feats that they can take to imprive their ability. One problems with the shield based fighter is they never had any good feats to help them.

 

[Raven Crowking]

Then grant the shield guy +1 bonus to AC per level, and the two weapon guy +1 bonus to damage per level (to model the effect of extra attacks, while dispensing with the actual roll for the second attack). Basically, choose between defense or damage.

 

[ferratus]

Then make shield offer a better bonus to AC and other additions (like the ability to punch with the shield perhaps). For the two handed fighter increase the damage even more so twice their strength bonus or something like that.

Yes, that's what I want to do. I just want to know the mathematical formula to get benefits equivalent to a character.

Balancing the two weapon fighter and the two handed fighter should be fairly easy to do as you just have to break it down to average damage. The two-handed fighter should hit less often, but do more damage, while the two handed fighter should hit more often and do less damage.

Balancing the sword and shield fighter will be a bit trickier, as you are balancing not being hit, with doing more damage. So how much AC will you need to get to get hit half as often to balance reducing your opponent's hp twice as fast?

I don't care how ludicrous the numbers end up being, I just want to know.

 

[SSquirrel]

Balancing the sword and shield fighter will be a bit trickier, as you are balancing not being hit, with doing more damage. So how much AC will you need to get to get hit half as often to balance reducing your opponent's hp twice as fast?

I don't care how ludicrous the numbers end up being, I just want to know.

I actually really like the way 4E handles shield attack powers. You don't get the weapon keyword, but you do get static attack bonuses that keep things in line with where they should be.

If you are going sword and shield, clearly topping the damage charts is not your primary concern. Altho a Dwarf Fighter w/Deadly Axes paragon feat and a Vicious Waraxe +3 can deal some sick amounts of damage for being a tank. Especially if he manages to crit heh.

 

[ferratus]

So after thinking about it overnight and sleeping on it, I used this formula.

If an opponent has a default AC of 10, with an attack bonus of +0 then they would hit 50% of the time. To increase those defenses so the opponent would only hit 25% of the time you would need a +5 AC. So the right AC boost for the shield should be +5.

For the two-handed fighter, you'll be hitting half as often as the two weapon fighter. Since I am making all one-handed weapons d8 damage, a two-handed fighter should do double damage to make up for it, with 2d8 per round.

Does this math sound balanced to everybody?