A Couple of Questions from a Beginner

[SiientForces]

I was just introduced to D&D by a friend of mine and started my first game a couple days ago. There were a couple of questions that came up that I was confused about, and I couldn't find a clear answer in any of the books I read through.

1) In the PHB, it states that an implement is not required to use powers with the "implement" keyword. It also states that using a non-magical implement does nothing. In that case, what is the holy symbol under "Equipment" in the PHB? Mistakenly thinking at the time that I needed it to use "implement" powers, I purchased one while making my character. Now, I'm trying to figure out whether my attacks get any bonus from it, and I'm not sure. The character's a paladin, if that makes a difference.

2) This is similar to the first question. One of the other people in the party is an Eladrin wizard with the basic longsword from the "Equipment" section. He is using the feat "Eladrin Sword Wizardry", from Arcane Power, which allows him to use a longsword as his implement. Does it provide any bonus to his attacks? Since the sword is non-magical, I don't believe that it does, but I'm not sure.

3) Heavy shields and plate armor both list a skill check penalty, which says that it applies to Str, Con, and Dex based skill checks but not to ability checks. Can someone please clarify exactly which checks that penalty applies to? Does it have an effect on attack rolls for Strength-based powers?

Sorry that this is so long, and thanks in advance for any help you can give me.

 

[samursus]

Welcome to D&D and EN World!!

1&2) You get a bonus to attack and damage rolls equal to the bonus of your implement. You don't otherwise need one. An implement is the mechanism to deliver math bonuses to non-weapon powers. The point of having non-magical ones for sale would be if you had an implement Feat before you had a magical implement. You couldn't use the Feat bonus unless you had an implement to use.

For example: the Feat Implement Expertise (Holy Symbol) would give you a +1 on attack rolls with any Paladin power with the Implement keyword.

You don't have to have the Implement to use the power, but as you level, its necessary to acquire a magic Holy Symbol to keep your hit chance with Implement powers up to par.

3) The penalty applies to Skill use. Ability checks are a different beast. Personally, most games I have ever played in use Skill checks only. But I can certainly see where it would be more accurate to use Ability Checks (no armour penalties).

For example: To kick in a door (Str check) your penalties wouldn't apply. To Jump over a pit (Athletics check: Str based) they would apply.

Hope this helps!

 

[storm_wolf]

To answer your questions:

1) you don't have to have the implement, however once you obtain a magic implement (check near the back of the PHB) you will find they increase your attacks and damage as well as provide other special effects.

2) A normal longsword will not provide a bonus to his implement powers, however if he gets a magical longsword, he can use it's bonuses for melee attacks and powers as well as implement powers (in his case a magic longsword +1 will provide a bonus of 1 to the die rolls of both melee attack powers and implement attack powers as well as their associated damage rolls).

3) The checks only apply to skills. Example skills would be Endurance/Athletics/Acrobatics and the like, but not Diplomacy/Intimidate/Streetwise as those are not skills inhibited by your choice of armor/shield. Since attacks are not skill checks they are not modified by the armor check penalty.

Hope that helps and welcome to D&D!

 

[kaomera]

I was just introduced to D&D by a friend of mine and started my first game a couple days ago.

One of us... Ooooone of uuuuus...

1) In the PHB, it states that an implement is not required to use powers with the "implement" keyword. It also states that using a non-magical implement does nothing. In that case, what is the holy symbol under "Equipment" in the PHB? Mistakenly thinking at the time that I needed it to use "implement" powers, I purchased one while making my character. Now, I'm trying to figure out whether my attacks get any bonus from it, and I'm not sure. The character's a paladin, if that makes a difference.

Your attacks probably do not get a bonus. Usually a non-magic implement does nothing, but there are some things that will do things if you have the implement. For your character that would probably only be a feat like versatile expertise.

2) This is similar to the first question. One of the other people in the party is an Eladrin wizard with the basic longsword from the "Equipment" section. He is using the feat "Eladrin Sword Wizardry", from Arcane Power, which allows him to use a longsword as his implement. Does it provide any bonus to his attacks? Since the sword is non-magical, I don't believe that it does, but I'm not sure.

Again, unless he has a something that grants a bonus when using a longsword as an implement, he gets no bonus with implement powers. This is actually a point of possible confusion, because a weapon attack would get the longsword's +3 proficiency bonus, as he is proficient in it (Eladrin get proficiency with the longsword as a racial thing). However, being a wizard his only weapon attacks are probably standard stuff every character gets like "basic attack".

3) Heavy shields and plate armor both list a skill check penalty, which says that it applies to Str, Con, and Dex based skill checks but not to ability checks. Can someone please clarify exactly which checks that penalty applies to? Does it have an effect on attack rolls for Strength-based powers?

It applies only to skill checks, specifically the athletics, endurance, acrobatics, stealth, and thievery skills. Attack rolls are not skill checks, but if you have to climb or jump or sneak, etc. then the check will apply when you roll the appropriate skill. If you have to shove a boulder out of the way (straight strength ability check) then it does not apply.

Sorry that this is so long, and thanks in advance for any help you can give me.

Not a problem at all. Welcome to D&D.

 

[mneme]

#1: If you have class features that require using an implement of a type, it can be worth using a non-magical implement of that type. For instance, the PHI/Arcane Power Wizard can only use his Implement Mastery when wielding an implement of the appropriate type.

Also, if you take a Superior Implement proficiency, you can only get a benefit from it while wielding the requisite superior implement. And if you can wield a Staff or Dagger implement, those have uses as weapons as well as implements.

But non-magical Holy Symbols and Rods don't really have a use with any extant class--so except for roleplaying purposes, your paladin doesn't get much of a benefit from his non-magical holy symbol.

#2: No, a non-magical sword won't provide a bonus to your Implement attacks, even if you can use it as an implement -- you never get proficiency bonuses on implement attacks (unless they're also Weapon attacks). However, if he has the Implement Mastery(Wand) feature, he can wield his longsword and still use the Implement Mastery (eg, get a bonus to hit, even after seeing the to-hit roll, on wizard powers) even though he's not wielding a wand -- and can use powers that require (or are enhanced, like Empowering Lightning) wielding a wand, take advantage of Wand Expertise to ignore cover when wielding the sword,

#3: It affects skill checks, but not ability checks. This means it won't affect Initiave, strength, con, or dex checks, and won't affect attacks. None of those are skill checks. It will affect all Con, Dex, or Str based skills -- Acrobatics, Endurance, Athletics, Stealth, and Thievery. Except when you're rolling against one of those skils, you don't need to worry about armor check penalties.

 

[SiientForces]

One of us... Ooooone of uuuuus...

True, true... Not that that's a bad thing though.

Thanks again to everyone for your help and for the welcome. All of the answers here were really useful.