A Question of Ethics:

[Umbran]

However, if I did what he did, I would not then try to blame it all on her, and then expect her to put down everything and MOVE COUNTRIES to be with me, and tell her that if she didn't do it, she wasn't committing to the relationship.

Two things:

1) Rule #1 about other people's relationships - even if you regularly talk to one of the people in question, don't expect you have the story straight.

Consider: there's what the guy is thinking, then what he said, then what she heard, then what she told you, then what you heard. I have seen perceptions get horribly mutilated in just those short steps - especially that last one. It's a doozy, because you have a vested interest in her current relationship failing.

Maybe he's a nozzle, maybe he's not - short of him being outright abusive, that isn't your business.

2) Long-distance relationships are not for everyone. I managed one for four years, with a thousand miles between us. The only reason it worked was we knew that separation would end when she finished grad school. I would not think poorly of anyone who decided that they didn't want a committed, long-distance relationship. Relationships require contact to maintain - so eventually someone has to move.

 

[billd91]

Yeah. She is pretty confused by the whole situation. Honestly, my ideal scenario would be to have her visit her Fiance (or have him visit - though he really doesn't like me much, even though he's never met me, and the feeling is quite mutual), and work out her feelings either way. However, she cannot afford to go south again anytime soon (she's saving up to move permanently, all for this guy), and he apparently can't be bothered to come up here (he's telling her it takes three months, at least, for him to get his passport renewed. Yet... he got a new one less than two years ago to see her the first time... and I know it takes a helluva lot less time to get one up here, so....).

Passports in the US can take time, but the standard estimate for renewal is 4-6 weeks, not 3 months. But this all sounds a bit suspicious to me. He got a passport 2 years ago to visit her. If that was new then, it's still good now unless he lost it. Adult passports generally have a 10 year expiration in the US.

 

[Raven Crowking]

Based on your additional replies:

It sounds like Leela knows how you feel, and has always known how you felt. And it sounds as though she reciprocates this to at least some degree.....although one then wonders why benefits would have been a bad idea before the other boyfriend came into the picture.........and, yet, she has chosen. And, yet, you are getting enough of a mixed message to wonder if you should try to be with her anyway.

It sounds to me like one of two scenarios is plausible: (1) She doesn't actually want to go through with the marriage, but doesn't want to take responsibility for that decision (i.e., she wants you to "convince her" so that if it turns out to be a bad decision, she can blame you instead of her) or (2) On the balance of things, she's just more into him and less into you than you'd like.

Your description of your relationship with Leela also makes me wonder whether she is as honest with herself, or with you, as you believe.

This modifies my advice somewhat: or get off the pot.

Yes, still have an honest conversation with Leela. Yes, still have an honest conversation with Kaylee. But those conversations should be more along the lines of:

TO LEELA: "I know you're engaged to Tom Baker, but we also both know how I feel about you. And if you want to be with Tom Baker, I'm going to wish you both the best. But I need to move on. I can't be your fallback if things with Tom Baker don't work out."

TO KAYLEE:

Option 1: "I've had a crush on LEELA forever, and we're going to try to make it work. But, if LEELA wasn't in the picture, I would have been very interested in you, and I am really honoured that you even considered me. I hope we can still be friends."

Option 2: "I've had a crush on LEELA forever, but she's going to go marry Tom Baker, and I'm still working through exactly how I feel about that. So I'm probably going to be a bit of a prick for the next few months. So, if you want to wait and try in a few months, I'll still be here. But if you want to make a go of it now, I'm willing to try. Either way, I'll try not to act like a prick, and I'll take responsibility for it when I do."

CONCLUSION

If you can have a deep and meaningful relationship with Leela, you can also have a deep and meaningful relationship with someone else. What the heart wants isn't rational, but it is conditioned, and it can change with new input.

Perhaps the most important benefit of rational thinking is that we can sort through our (irrational) desires and put them in some sort of order of importance.

If my current partner chose to end our relationship, I would be devastated. Right now, I can honestly say there is no one in the world I would rather be with. But, if she did decide to leave, I wouldn't be crippled for life, and I know there would always be a chance of being as happy with someone else.

You need to judge what you have on the basis of what it is, not on the basis of some "something else" that you may one day have, or can imagine having. The grass may always look greener elsewhere, but grass is grass, and none of it is perfect.

Good luck.


RC

 

[Rhun]

If you show yourself to be a cad and ruffian (so to speak), is she going to like that portion of you?

I prefer rake to cad or ruffian.

 

[Scott DeWar]

or scoundral or nere do well

 

[invokethehojo]

It seems like Leela is about to pizza when she should french fry, and therefore is gonna have a bad time. Moving to another country to be with a dude who, at least from the sound of things, she isn't exactly in the most stable relationship with, just sounds like a bad idea from any angle. If she is really going to make such an expensive and life altering decision it should be for the right reasons, and to be with just some dude doesn't sound like a good reason. What happens if she gets there, doesn't adjust very easily to her new home, and then the relationship with dude doesn't work out, what is she gonna do then? I mean, her family and friends are in another country.

While we are all telling things about ourselves consider this worse case scenario: I went to college in boston, but I'm from the midwest. During the schoolyear I had a very complicated appendicitis. I went septic and almost died. They brought me into a quarantine room and stripped me naked and covered me with ice packs because my fever was 106. So I laid there all night thinking I was going to die alone because everyone who loved me was a thousand miles away, which was an unpleasant experience to say the least. Of course I did make it through, but I spent a month in the hosptial, and my parents not only had a pantload of medical bills to pay when it was all over, but they had to stay in a hotel, in boston, for that entire month, which wasn't free.

I don't know if you want to use any of this information to sway her opinion, but I can tell you from firsthand experience: she should be sure that this move is really worth it, because if something goes wrong it will be too late to change her mind.

 

[Scott DeWar]

On invoke's thread of thought, if she wants to return home to Kanada, how is she going to that? she may be stuck here in the states with no way to get back.

 

[Wik]

On invoke's thread of thought, if she wants to return home to Kanada, how is she going to that? she may be stuck here in the states with no way to get back.

I'd pay to fly her back, if I had to. I'd fly down to pick her up. Or whatever.

She'd do the exact same for me.

 

[Neonchameleon]

As RavenCrowking said, place your cards flat on the table, face up. Honestly, what you decide to do doesn't matter anything like as much as how you do it. Kaylee in particular both needs and deserves to know exactly what is going on. But first talk to Leela, work out exactly what is going on and nail down as much as you can. Tell her that this conversation is as much for Kaylee's benefit as for yours. Then have a long conversation with Kaylee and ask her what she wants. Give Kaylee the information and the choice - it really affects her.

Of course this conversation with Leela might change things with her. Show her that there is someone else you could be happy with and are interested in. And see what the prospect of you going out with someone else does to the way she sees things.

 

[Wik]

So, an update of sortsa:

First, I was planning on chatting to Kaylee, letting her know what's going on and all that. However, it looks like I got lucky, in a sense. Kaylee is apparently a diehard teeetotaller, and when she found out that I occasionally take a sip or two (not relaly a hardcore drinker, but I guess I'm too hardcore for her), it was a dealbreaker for her, and off she went. Problem solved, without any awkwardness. Woot!

As for Leela, she's in super panic attack mode because she really has no idea what to do. She's known how I feel about her for a long time. I told her the other day that I was tired of how I feel for her, and how it cannot really be returned back at this point in time, and I was going to just distance myself a little bit emotionally. I have been doing so, being a good friend, but nothing more. And her panic attacks have been getting worse, because the boyfriend is still being a wad.

I'm worried about her, but I'm not going to put myself in the position I was in last week. I'm just gonna be there for her as a friend, and hope everything works out.