Infinite quiver

[Colmarr]

Is there an 'infinite quiver'-like item in 4e?

One of my players for Zeitgeist is quite keen on using firearms and has asked whether he needs to buy and track ammunition. The item seems like it would be a perfect compromise.

If there isn't such an item, what do you think of the following napkin math for pricing one:

Assume 7 shots per combat. Assume 8 combats per level. 30 levels. 7 x 8 x 30 = 1680 shots.

Divide that by base cost of ammunition. Even if firearm ammunition is 5 per gp, it still only amounts to 336gp. Which is pretty close to a level 2 magic item, if I remember correctly. Maybe we just agree that your level 2 item will be an infinite reloader that you can clip and unclip to a firearm and leave it at that? It's an imposition at low levels, but by the time you're level 5 you'll have forgotten all about the money.

I'm keen to minimise the bookkeeping, but don't want to remove the logistical distinction between firearms/bows and spellslinging altogether.

 

[Incenjucar]

Endless Quiver, level 9, Adventurer's Vault.

 

[Colmarr]

Level 9! Holy moly.

Thanks.

 

[Bold or Stupid]

Just as note your seven shots per combat is a LOT low, at Epic I've seen a ranger Throwing out over 100 shots in a round, several times a combat. This was with Hail of Arrows, a great bow (range 50) and an army of undead just off the map. More realistically You can expect an average combat to see a Bow ranger throw maybe 20 shots in a combat, which with you 8 combat encounters per level over thirty levels gets 4800 shots, which okay is not a level 9 item but I feel the cool factor of never running out may over shadow the cost.

 

[erleni]

I usually give an infinite quiver for free to PCs using ammunition when they reach 6th level. By that time the cost of ammunition becomes trivial and at the same time bookkeping becomes more time consuming.

 

[Colmarr]

Just as note your seven shots per combat is a LOT low.

I suspected it might be. But even if you assume 20 shots per combat, I still can't really see the justification for level 9.

Thanks for the insight.

 

[Saeviomagy]

I suspected it might be. But even if you assume 20 shots per combat, I still can't really see the justification for level 9.

Thanks for the insight.

That's most likely why av2 introduced the kamestiri quiver, which is the same level as the basic endless quiver, does the same thing and also counts as part of a set.

And even then it's a bit crap.

Seriously - just go with your pricing. A level 9 item for avoiding a bit of bookkeeping is only overshadowed in ludicrousness by the bracers of infinite blades.

 

[wayne62682]

Seriously - just go with your pricing. A level 9 item for avoiding a bit of bookkeeping is only overshadowed in ludicrousness by the bracers of infinite blades.

I preferred your unedited version; tracking ammo is a boring and lame holdover from the olden days and does nothing except bog down the game or screw over the player ("Whoops, you ran out of Ammo. Enjoy being useless in the next few fights until you get back to town mwa-ha-ha!").

I make it a preference not to play in any game that requires tracking of ammo, rations, light sources, etc. unless I have absolutely no choice. All of that stuff is minutiae that should IMO be handwaved away unless it's part of the plot (e.g. we're in the wilderness and food is running low so we need to stop at the village of Plothook for the night to get some supplies)

 

[Obryn]

I suspected it might be. But even if you assume 20 shots per combat, I still can't really see the justification for level 9.

Thanks for the insight.

It's funny. It's WAY overpriced. But your players, unless they are insane and track the treasure parcels, will likely just be happy to have one, no matter what level it is.

If Infinite Food is Level 2, the Infinite Quiver should be somewhere around there!

-O

 

[Nemesis Destiny]

I've given out items like this before (under several editions), and they've ranged from boring to broken.

I suggest if you find it boring and/or underpowered, that you spice it up a bit with additional powers. Perhaps once per encounter (or per day) it can create some "special" ammunition (like the magic ammo from, uh, was it AV2?). If it is some kind of speed loader attached to a firearm, depending on your firearms rules, you could have it speed up the loading process in addition to providing ammo.

One of the variations I did on this was a broken as hell quiver that had three compartments - one would generate "trick" arrows infinitely (frogcrotch, blunts, flight, sheaf, capsule, whistle, etc), one would generate generic magic arrows of random enhancement (I think it was on a bell curve, so +5 arrows were uncommon), and a third compartment that would generate ANY kind of arrow, but again, at random. I would roll on the master ammunition chart in the back of the list of magic items from Encyclopedia Magica or whatever it was.

Good times. The player was fond of firing into melee, and on more than one occasion accidentally shot the Paladin in the back. Usually it was a Flame Strike arrow, but he did nail him with a Paladin Slayer once (he made his save). Good times.