D&D 3E/3.5 Vote for your favorite core Class!!! (3.5)

[Elf Witch]

My favorite class is sorcerer. I enjoy the flexibility of not having to pick spells everyday.

My second class is a paladin. Though I don't play them often anymore mainly because of narrow minded DMs and players.

They make it very hard to play a paladin. I think most people believe that a paladin should be played lawful stupid. They are not allowed to use tactics because that is dishonorable, they can never lie even if undercover , they are expected to always be perfect which is impossible.

DMs like to put them in no win scenarios so what ever choice they make there goes their abilities.

The fun for me has been sucked out of the game.

 

[slwoyach]

i might be projecting here... but why do i get the idea that one of the reasons behind the few votes for the paladin is..... bad DMing...?

My problem with paladins isn't bad DMing, it's the ability to detect evil at will. I like games with a lot of NPC interactions, the ability to identify the bad guys at will absolutely ruins the game for me.

 

[PureGoldx58]

My problem with paladins isn't bad DMing, it's the ability to detect evil at will. I like games with a lot of NPC interactions, the ability to identify the bad guys at will absolutely ruins the game for me.

The bad guys are always evil? Man what boring DMs have you had?

 

[Elf Witch]

My problem with paladins isn't bad DMing, it's the ability to detect evil at will. I like games with a lot of NPC interactions, the ability to identify the bad guys at will absolutely ruins the game for me.

I don't understand this. In every game I played detect evil is not passive but active. Which means people know if you are casting magic at them.

People tend to get upset over stuff like this. If a paladin goes around detecting evil on everyone he meets eventually there will be consequences. The merchants will refuse to allow him in their shops the city guard might arrest him the mayor may ask him to leave town.

There are also spells and items that hide and change alignment. It makes sense that NPCs with money to buy these protections would do so.

 

[Dandu]

Detect Evil is less useful in a game with Antivillains, Well Intentioned Extremists, and morally ambiguous characters.

 

[Greenfield]

My problem with paladins isn't bad DMing, it's the ability to detect evil at will. I like games with a lot of NPC interactions, the ability to identify the bad guys at will absolutely ruins the game for me.

Look at the rules for Detect spells and powers.

The caster/user has to concentrate for 3 rounds.

Round 1: They know if there is any Evil/Good/Law/Chaos/Magic/Whatever within range (Effect is a cone.)
Round 2: The general sense will begin to focus into distinct sources. User can get an idea of how many sources are in range.
Round 3: Now you can identify individual sources.

Also remember that in any crowd there will be a variety of alignments. Running Detect Evil all the time will show that about 10% of the "good" races are still Evil, about 30% of Humans in most towns, and 70%+ of the "Evil" races.

Just because someone's not a nice guy, or is in a really foul mood at the moment, shouldn't do any more for the Paladin than tell him, "I have a lot of work to do here".

He has to deal with a noble who's Lawful Evil? It doesn't mean that the man is up to no good right now, or has any ill will towards the Paladin, his friends or his cause. The man might be a right bastard in the way he deals with people, but still be the only one for the job, and actually may be doing good in the current venture.

So throw a bunch of "false positives" at him in social situations, and make it clear that "Detect Evil" isn't at all the same as "Detect Enemy".

 

[Jimlock]

“Hear no evil, speak no evil - and you'll never be invited to a party”

 

[Jimlock]

Detect Evil is less useful in a game with Antivillains, Well Intentioned Extremists, and morally ambiguous characters.

Very true.
But even if the villains are evil the are ways to protect themselves from ppl reading their alignment... Which would be more like an act of "hiding their true intentions" or such...rather than acknowledging that they are "evil" and therefore they have to hide it!

 

[slwoyach]

The bad guys are always evil? Man what boring DMs have you had?

The majority of opponents have been evil in every single campaign I've played in for the past 20+ years, and I'd put cash money down that 99% of the other dnd players out there are the same.

I don't understand this. In every game I played detect evil is not passive but active. Which means people know if you are casting magic at them.

People tend to get upset over stuff like this. If a paladin goes around detecting evil on everyone he meets eventually there will be consequences. The merchants will refuse to allow him in their shops the city guard might arrest him the mayor may ask him to leave town.

There are also spells and items that hide and change alignment. It makes sense that NPCs with money to buy these protections would do so.

That only came about in 3e. In all prior editions the paladin only had to look in a direction and every 3e group I've been in has only done the same. As for spells and items, how lame is it when the majority of villains run around with magic items to disguise their alignment? What an overdone trope.

Look at the rules for Detect spells and powers.

The caster/user has to concentrate for 3 rounds.

Round 1: They know if there is any Evil/Good/Law/Chaos/Magic/Whatever within range (Effect is a cone.)
Round 2: The general sense will begin to focus into distinct sources. User can get an idea of how many sources are in range.
Round 3: Now you can identify individual sources.

Also remember that in any crowd there will be a variety of alignments. Running Detect Evil all the time will show that about 10% of the "good" races are still Evil, about 30% of Humans in most towns, and 70%+ of the "Evil" races.

Just because someone's not a nice guy, or is in a really foul mood at the moment, shouldn't do any more for the Paladin than tell him, "I have a lot of work to do here".

He has to deal with a noble who's Lawful Evil? It doesn't mean that the man is up to no good right now, or has any ill will towards the Paladin, his friends or his cause. The man might be a right bastard in the way he deals with people, but still be the only one for the job, and actually may be doing good in the current venture.

So throw a bunch of "false positives" at him in social situations, and make it clear that "Detect Evil" isn't at all the same as "Detect Enemy".

So what if it takes three rounds, most of my campaigns have a lot of interaction which means they have plenty of face time with villains. The evil noble who acts altruistic can never be the secret villian when there's a paladin around unless he has magic to disguise his alignment.

Paladins handcuff campaigns, I never allow them. Too bad it has to come to that because I like heroic heroes, and they're the epitome of heroism.

__________________

 

[Elf Witch]

The majority of opponents have been evil in every single campaign I've played in for the past 20+ years, and I'd put cash money down that 99% of the other dnd players out there are the same.



That only came about in 3e. In all prior editions the paladin only had to look in a direction and every 3e group I've been in has only done the same. As for spells and items, how lame is it when the majority of villains run around with magic items to disguise their alignment? What an overdone trope.



So what if it takes three rounds, most of my campaigns have a lot of interaction which means they have plenty of face time with villains. The evil noble who acts altruistic can never be the secret villian when there's a paladin around unless he has magic to disguise his alignment.

Paladins handcuff campaigns, I never allow them. Too bad it has to come to that because I like heroic heroes, and they're the epitome of heroism.

__________________

I have been playing since 1979 and I have never played in a campaign that all the NPCs were evil and this is playing with a variety of people so I don't think it is any where near 99%

If you are playing 3E then what is the issue? If you are playing an older edition you can always house rule it.

It is not lame at all. Is it anymore lame then villians running around with other forms of magic items to make their lives easier?

In a world where divine magic is real and good guys can detect if you are being naughty then it makes sense to have protections. It is no different than stopping arcane casters from scrying on you.

If you want a paladin flavor class then build one take out the at will detect evil.

In the end its your campaign and you can run it the way you and your players like.