Multiple Resist Energies

[Vegepygmy]

I usually find myself agreeing with Patryn, but in this case, no.

The "One Effect Makes Another Irrelevant" rule does not apply to resist energy (cold) and resist energy (fire) (for example) because nothing about being resistant to fire damage has any impact on being resistant to cold damage.

If you shapechange into an eagle, then polymorph into a goldfish, the polymorph renders the shapechange irrelevant because you can't be both an eagle and a goldfish at the same time.

You most certainly can be resistant to both fire damage and cold damage at the same time, however. So resist energy (fire) doesn't render a previously cast resist energy (cold) irrelevant; they're apples and oranges.

Neither does "Same Effect with Differing Results" apply, because granting something cold resistance is not the same effect as granting something fire resistance. Again, cold resistance doesn't render fire resistance irrelevant, and vice versa.

 

[frankthedm]

I disagree (obviously, right? ).

It's a rules forum, not everyone agrees with the rules, even when they accept what the rules say.

I see where your argument is coming from in the text you quoted, but I agree that Vegepygmy has the correct view on the matter.

I accept Buff-zillas should be taken down a few pegs, but this is hardly the way to accomplish that.

 

[Ranes]

How many times can I be wrong in one thread?

 

[DumbPaladin]

We discussed this a lot in our game once we hit 2nd level spells, because people wanted to start being resistant to 3 elements at once.

Given that some monsters and spellcasters can hit players with energy type A as a standard action and energy type B as a different standard action, it didn't seem too much to give the players the ability to protect against all 5 energy types in 5 standard actions -- assuming you had that many spell slots or spell points or scrolls or whatever.

Also, dispel magic can make them go away nicely.

I agree with vegepygmy that fire resistance is not the same as sonic resistance, neither makes the other irrelevant, and the spell that created them, while named the same, isn't giving the same result so it's not falling under the "same effect with different results" rule.

Unfortunately, there are not many spells that fall into this category, and the situation isn't clearly addressed.

 

[Jimlock]

Patryn of Elvenshae, you have the right to remain silent...

 

[DumbPaladin]

Now now, let's be fair.

I actually don't think Patryn is necessarily wrong at all. I just disagree. But Patryn's view is held by quite a few people, because the rules do not expressly state that view is incorrect.

 

[Jimlock]

Now now, let's be fair.

I actually don't think Patryn is necessarily wrong at all. I just disagree. But Patryn's view is held by quite a few people, because the rules do not expressly state that view is incorrect.

I didn't say he is...

 

[draconlord]

DumbPaladin->I agree that your method seems balanced. However, if I was a)not too interested in fair play and b)have the gold to burn, it's really not too hard to cast Extended CL 11 Resist Energy for all 5 energies. It's 220 minutes, so proper preparation will be sufficient to last most encounters. Hopefully.

On the other hand, 5scrollsx11 players(or 1.1 wands) is a sh-tload of moola. So maybe casting it on everybody is impractical, even for a bossfight. Maybe I'll just stick to fire resistance and one or two others for the tanks. And myself, of course. I'm hardly gonna forget priority number one here.XD

Everybody else->I think, subject to explicit DM disapproval, I'm gonna agree with the majority here. As already mentioned, having multiple "Resist Energies" is more of a convenience/formality than anything else as I'm absolutely capable of using different spells to gain the same effect.

 

[xigbar]

Energy Absorption, Complete Mage.

 

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

he "One Effect Makes Another Irrelevant" rule does not apply to resist energy (cold) and resist energy (fire) (for example) because nothing about being resistant to fire damage has any impact on being resistant to cold damage.

I don't think this particular line of argument has any particular bearing on the issue at hand. The question is, "is it the same spell with a different result?"

If Resist Elements (Fire) and Resist Elements (Cold) are, as I posit, the same spell, and spells are effects, then this is clearly a case of the same effect with different results (in one case, you are resistant to fire damage; in the other, you are not and are instead resistant to cold).

The rules do not mandate that the spell effects must make each other irrelevant to fall under this rule. That's putting the cart before the horse. Rather, the fact that they fall under this rule makes them become irrelevant as an effect of their being the same spell applied multiple times.

Note that the rule name is not "Multiple Effects which Make Each Other Irrelevant," it is "Same Effect with Differing Results." Resist Energy x2 is the same effect with differing results. Ergo, you can't stack it in any way, and you must burn more spells than just one to get multiple resistances.